If you hang around here long enough...

[suzy smith]

I came to the forum a solid atheist with thoughts of turning the world to atheism. I have changed to a pure agnostic realizing the atheism and theism are flip sides of the same coin.

One of the pleasures of being on a debating forum like this is when you come across a post that makes you spill your coffee as you gasp in disbelief.

I respect your comment but for the life of me I cant get my head around this?

 

[suzy smith]

It was in response to this post of yours: I highlighted the part in blue:



You do have the capacity to extend faith.


When did I ever bring up god?

Sorry if I misunderstand you crossfire.

[I thought I was narrowing the meaning of faith?]

 

[StarryNightshade]

You could have your once solid belief's in your faith shaken to the core, perhaps even become an agnostic or even an atheist. When I first joined this forum years ago I was a pretty solid Christian, but after being exposed to such diversity of faiths I had to conclude that if an almighty god created all this why would he have such confusion regarding who he is and how one should approach a proper relationship with him? I've since abandoned exorteric or the outer form of religion and embraced a much more esoteric form of communion with the deity. Outer religion in it's rigid form is in error, imo. It's just rigid tradition which has been passed down, often with force and coercion and therefore ultimately a man made creation and not of god. I think many are beginning to realize this and why many in the modern world are claiming to be spiritual but not religious, count me as one.

I don't think I really came with solid beliefs.

About a couple of years before I joined RF, I was a hard Atheist. When I joined, I was an agnostic Buddhist. Over the past year, my beliefs have shifted around quite a bit. From Buddhism, to studying Judaism, to Hinduism, to Paganism, to Agnosticism, back to Buddhism, etc. A lot of which was influenced by posters here and many resources that they recommended.

The only major difference for me that has stuck so far is that I went from non-theism to Transtheism. However, everything (including my current beliefs) are always subject to change.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Well all I can do is give you my advice from my Advaita Vedanta position. You are then free to put my on your RF 'Ignore' list after this.

In non-dual thought (Advaita=not two) God and creation are not two separate things. NobodyYouKnow is God in my religion. God which is the core of everything is pure being-bliss-awareness. You are God but covered over by an ego that you mistakenly identify as the real you. So the God you are praying to and hoping to find is right inside of you. The Self is obscured by your self.

So the key is to tell your little self to shut-up enough to feel some of your real Self and consequently some of the peace and bliss you are looking for from an external God. It's what sages call the Science of Self-Realization. How to get the little self to shut up? The process is called Yoga. There are different processes of Yoga suitable for different temperaments. Meditation is a good technique to quiet the ego. And tell yourself STOP every time you have a negative thought and switch to a pleasant thought. Negative thoughts spin and create an even stronger vortex of negativity until you just have a miserable existence. Stop that crap.

Work to catch yourself when a negative thought starts and say 'STOP' this: I will do the right thing and the results are out of my control. The results are not important but my peace and happiness is. These results won't mean much on our deathbed but our happiness and knowledge that we played the game well and with compassion will matter. As long as you're putting out a good effort to do your duties and being compassionate, be CONTENT.

So stop this talk of being orphaned by some external God. All you need is already there, just tell the ego to shut-up.

Yes, I guess you are correct. Just continue on with my sadhana, and if God gives me darshan along the way, just ignore it as being a 'trick of my mind'.

Basically, I have nothing that a frontal lobotomy cannot fix....my negative mind will stop getting in the way then, as saying 'STOP' achieves nothing.

The problem is, I am unable to experience a pleasant thought or emotion...I am not kidding!

I am also not being negative about this either, but I have Anhedonia really bad. One of the worst cases out there and I don't know what to do about it.

Maybe if that was fixed, this religious problem would also be fixed and I would be able to find happiness, pleasure, or some positive emotion either with or without God.

The only thing left to do is to try and lose my negative emotions along with those positive ones that vanished years ago and try to become a total, emotionless robot...that would also solve it.

 

[Secret Chief]

Sorry if I misunderstand you crossfire.

[I thought I was narrowing the meaning of faith?]

Hello. For me, faith and doubt are in dynamic tension, like yin and yang. Doubt can be the fuel for the engine of faith.

 

[nazz]

I've been a member here for almost 7 years and I haven't had my belief shaken at all. I don't think my faith is any stronger than anyone else's, either. Not to say it couldn't have happened. (Edit to add: It says it will 8 years on my sign up date, but I joined here, forgot about it and discovered it a year later when I started posting regularly )

Yeah, but you are pretty liberal to begin with (or maybe have become so?). So there is less challenge to that kind of faith. I have a dear friend who came to another board a strong fundamentalist Christians and she is now an atheist due to her belief system being shattered by the experience. And she is just one of many who have experienced that. People can be quite overconfident in the strength of their faith.

 

[nazz]

One of the pleasures of being on a debating forum like this is when you come across a post that makes you spill your coffee as you gasp in disbelief.

I respect your comment but for the life of me I cant get my head around this?

Don't want to speak for Bob but I think maybe he is referring to so-called strong atheism. People can be strong believers in gods or they can be strong believers there are no gods. Two sides of one coin.

 

[InChrist]

And she is just one of many who have experienced that. People can be quite overconfident in the strength of their faith.

And therein may lie the problem for those who lose their faith... they are trusting in the strength of their faith instead of trusting in the strength of Jesus their Savior.

 

[nazz]

And therein may lie the problem for those who lose their faith... they are trusting in the strength of their faith instead of trusting in the strength of Jesus their Savior.

It highly annoys me when Christians condemn their former brothers and sisters in this way

Your dogmatism does not trump truth.

 

[ChristineES]

Yeah, but you are pretty liberal to begin with (or maybe have become so?). So there is less challenge to that kind of faith. I have a dear friend who came to another board a strong fundamentalist Christians and she is now an atheist due to her belief system being shattered by the experience. And she is just one of many who have experienced that. People can be quite overconfident in the strength of their faith.

Actually, I was raised a liberal by my mother. I am actually less liberal than I used to be.

 

[George-ananda]

Yes, I guess you are correct. Just continue on with my sadhana, and if God gives me darshan along the way, just ignore it as being a 'trick of my mind'.

Don't forget higher loving beings can give real darshan too!

 

[Tumah]

So far what I've learned here:
-Christians and Muslims are both fighting the same war for legitimacy.
-I can understand the cultures of both Christians and Muslims to some extent, being as Jews have spent much time in their respective regions.
-I have no conception of the Dharmic religions' mindset at all.
-I often think that Judaism is more alien to both Christians and Muslims than they realize.
-Atheists can be repetitive too.
-I think the way I view Quintessence is prohibited by the second of the 10 commandments.
-Anything I've ever posted I'll repeat at least once before a month passes.
-OP are only recommended discussion topics for a given thread and in on way is a thread required to remain discussing it for more than 5 posts.

 

[suzy smith]

Hello. For me, faith and doubt are in dynamic tension, like yin and yang. Doubt can be the fuel for the engine of faith.

I keep coming across statements like this and there I go again spilling my coffee!

So you doubt something and that gives you faith? [Well it does read that way]
I doubt something and I look hard at all the evidence for it. Only then do I have faith in it…..or dump it!:sarcastic

 

[Gjallarhorn]

So you doubt something and that gives you faith?
I doubt something and I look hard at all the evidence for it. Only then do I have faith in it…..or dump it!

You've never dealt with boomerang believers? They have doubt, find some sliver of validation (which may not be accurate or even logical) and then start waving their banners even higher.

Of course there are those that validate their beliefs with credible evidence...

 

[BSM1]

You could have your once solid belief's in your faith shaken to the core, perhaps even become an agnostic or even an atheist. When I first joined this forum years ago I was a pretty solid Christian, but after being exposed to such diversity of faiths I had to conclude that if an almighty god created all this why would he have such confusion regarding who he is and how one should approach a proper relationship with him? I've since abandoned exorteric or the outer form of religion and embraced a much more esoteric form of communion with the deity. Outer religion in it's rigid form is in error, imo. It's just rigid tradition which has been passed down, often with force and coercion and therefore ultimately a man made creation and not of god. I think many are beginning to realize this and why many in the modern world are claiming to be spiritual but not religious, count me as one.

It's been my experience that those who feel they must defend their faith, and those that loose their faith probably A. didn't understand their faith, or B. didn't have it to begin with. Everyone has to find their own truth thus their own faith. Never be afraid of doubting; never be afraid of looking; and never be afraid of what you may find.

 

[icehorse]

Since I've been here, I've learned a lot:

- I've learned the common approaches the faithful use to argue their faith.
- I've learned some really creative ways faith is argued.
- I've learned that my internet is very different than what others see. Information, even on the internet, isn't evenly distributed.
- I wish everyday that we had more, unambiguous words to discuss the distinctions that are commonly discussed on PR. So many arguments boil down to issues of semantics, and as long as this is the case, discussion cannot go too deep, which is a shame.

- And mostly, I see how the world would be a better place if we all tried hard not to use fallacies in our arguments... sigh...