If you make over 75,000 a year, are you rich?

[nutshell]

Reread my post:
"There are probably some people who live in the humblest circumstances, and have nothing left to save."
What am I ignoring?

My son who was in Ecuador, mentioned that even in the poorest shack-like home, there'd always be a TV, and plenty of booze.

But yes, there are those who truly have nothing--but not that many in this country when compared to the rest of the world.

I apologize if I misunderstood.

 

[Reverend Rick]

For young adults fresh out of (or in) college there are few alternatives.

I hear you. Life is unfair. When people first start out they make the least amount of money, work the hardest and need the most amount of stuff.

When you get older, your kids are raised, you have everything you need and make the most money for the least amount of work.

Americans have a love affair with their cars. Knowing what you can afford is hard at first. If you need a car to get to work, you have made a poor choice where you live. If your job is not near cheap housing, you chose the wrong job.

Some folks cannot afford to work some places.

Too many people want to like where they live and enjoy their job. If there is no efficiencies in your area, you live in the wrong area. If you are hell bent on living somewhere, share the house or apartment and it is always best to move in with someone else than have someone move in with you.

Wealth is what you acquire not what you earn. Wages have nothing to do with it. How long you work and what you do with the money does. Always live below your means and resist temptation to spend when ever you can. Going to the movies, eating out and spending time in bars is great fun but a real killer on your cash flow.

 

[Reverend Rick]

What if you absolutely have to touch it?

Being rich isn't equal to having luxuries. The middle class has luxuries, but only enough to make them "normal" in our society. Being rich requires more than just a "nice" house and a computer.

Some people can't afford to be normal. You have three chances in life to be rich.

1. Born rich
2. Marry rich
3. become rich

Most people who become rich never really enjoy their money because old habits are hard to break.

People who you think are rich, rarely are and people you would never dream of just might be.

If you absolutely have to touch your savings, that is what it is for. If you touch it every week, you are living beyond your means and something has to go or you have to make more money or you have to share the expense with someone.

If all else fails, you can always go home to mommy and daddy if your lucky enough to have their support.

 

[nutshell]

Rick, I think you are still ignoring the fact that even if everything you say is true, there is still a group who is poor and will remain poor no matter what they do on their own.

 

[Fluffy]

Rick, I think you are still ignoring the fact that even if everything you say is true, there is still a group who is poor and will remain poor no matter what they do on their own.

Yes this seems to be the crux of the matter.

Whilst microfinance, and especially savings, have had a measurable impact on those in poverty but not in absolute poverty (for example on those who have non-steady incomes rather than no income), they have been equally ineffective in helping those in absolute poverty.

However, there are many, many people who could help themselves right now by saving but don't because they don't think that they can.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Rick, I think you are still ignoring the fact that even if everything you say is true, there is still a group who is poor and will remain poor no matter what they do on their own.

Only if they are disabled. I see plenty of disabled folks who make it too.

Please give me an example of this person nutshell. The person so hopeless that cannot or will not feed themselves. A person so helpless they cannot wash dishes or answer a phone and take a message. A person who could not be a greeter at Walmart?

 

[Fluffy]

Please give me an example of this person nutshell. The person so hopeless that cannot or will not feed themselves. A person so helpless they cannot wash dishes or answer a phone and take a message. A person who could not be a greeter at Walmart?

You should also include some carers of people with disabilities and asylum seekers (in the UK).

 

[Starfish]

Rick, I think you are still ignoring the fact that even if everything you say is true, there is still a group who is poor and will remain poor no matter what they do on their own.

"For ye have the poor with you always, and whensoever ye will ye may do them good; but me ye have not always." Mark 14:7

However, some in that group, need not be there. For many there is a way out, if they are willing to take it.

 

[nutshell]

Only if they are disabled. I see plenty of disabled folks who make it too.

Please give me an example of this person nutshell. The person so hopeless that cannot or will not feed themselves. A person so helpless they cannot wash dishes or answer a phone and take a message. A person who could not be a greeter at Walmart?

I'm not talking about the disabled and I've already told you who this person is: A person who, even if they do everything you suggested, cannot make it. They do wash dishes, they do answer phones, they do work at Walmart, and they do many other things too.

This class exists and it is apparent you fundamentally reject this.

Did you review the links to the show I suggested?

 

[Mister_T]

I'm not talking about the disabled and I've already told you who this person is: A person who, even if they do everything you suggested, cannot make it. They do wash dishes, they do answer phones, they do work at Walmart, and they do many other things too.

This class exists and it is apparent you fundamentally reject this.

Did you review the links to the show I suggested?

What Rick seems to be missing is that you'd have to work all three of those jobs just to break 30,000 a year (and I'm being generous with that number), which ain't squat.

 

[Starfish]

What Rick seems to be missing is that you'd have to work all three of those jobs just to break 30,000 a year (and I'm being generous with that number), which ain't squat.

Once you get yourself into this position, with debts and obligations, it's extremely hard to get out. But where were these people during their teens and 20's, when others were getting their educations? Couldn't they see then that Walmart and dishwashing wasn't going to cut it? Does the story of the grasshopper and the ant apply here?

 

[Mister_T]

Once you get yourself into this position, with debts and obligations, it's extremely hard to get out. But where were these people during their teens and 20's, when others were getting their educations? Couldn't they see then that Walmart and dishwashing wasn't going to cut it? Does the story of the grasshopper and the ant apply here?

Who said anything about these people being in debt? There are lots of people below the poverty line that aren't in debt. I'm not familiar with the grasshopper and the ant story, but I am familiar with generalizations, which is what I'm seeing displayed here. Not everyone has "easy access" to oppurtunity like you're trying to imply. There are a number of different circumstances that can affect the outcome of a person's success/access to oppurtunity.

 

[Starfish]

I'm not familiar with the grasshopper and the ant story, but I am familiar with generalizations, which is what I'm seeing here. Not everyone has "easy access" to oppurtunity like you're trying to imply. There are a number of different circumstances that can affect the outcome of a person's success/access to oppurtunity.

There are always exceptions. I believe the vast majority could work like crazy and get educated in fields that have opportunities, if they choose. It's just that many don't choose it, and end up in trouble later.

Some choose the hard road early on, and end up on the easy road later. Some do it in reverse.

 

[Starfish]

I'm not familiar with the grasshopper and the ant story.

In brief--the ant worked hard all summer long to store up food for the winter. The grasshopper played all summer. Then when it got cold, the grasshopper went to the ant for food. The ant said no.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There are always exceptions. I believe the vast majority could work like crazy and get educated in fields that have opportunities, if they choose. It's just that many don't choose it, and end up in trouble later.

Some choose the hard road early on, and end up on the easy road later. Some do it in reverse.

I think that education is one area where people don't have a lot of choice, and the consequences of a bad educational foundation can have major impacts on everything else in a person's life afterward.

The cost of tuition aside (which is a huge issue by itself), a person builds the foundation for university or even for trade school in high school and elementary. In our society, a child or teenager has little to no right to mandate change (and often wouldn't yet have the skills and knowledge to base a proper choice on even if he or she did have that right) if his or her school doesn't cut the mustard.

 

[Starfish]

I think that education is one area where people don't have a lot of choice, and the consequences of a bad educational foundation can have major impacts on everything else in a person's life afterward.

The cost of tuition aside (which is a huge issue by itself), a person builds the foundation for university or even for trade school in high school and elementary. In our society, a child or teenager has little to no right to mandate change (and often wouldn't yet have the skills and knowledge to base a proper choice on even if he or she did have that right) if his or her school doesn't cut the mustard.

There are ways. But it takes sacrifice and discipline. Many have risen out of places where the odds are against them and would be greatly offended if anyone shrugged it of as simple luck or handouts.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

There are ways. But it takes sacrifice and discipline. Many have risen out of places where the odds are against them and would be greatly offended if anyone shrugged it of as simple luck or handouts.

But if you're never taught sacrifice and self-discipline in the first place, what are you supposed to do?

If you're a 15-year-old kid, your teachers treat the class as babysitting sessions instead of opportunities to help you learn, and your parents can't help (either because they're out working two jobs to put food on the table or perhaps because of other issues like language difficulties in the case of new immigrants), how exactly are you supposed to develop the skills and knowledge to get admitted to university, to say nothing of qualifying for the scholarships you'd need to actually be able to pay for it?

 

[Starfish]

But if you're never taught sacrifice and self-discipline in the first place, what are you supposed to do?

If you're a 15-year-old kid, your teachers treat the class as babysitting sessions instead of opportunities to help you learn, and your parents can't help (either because they're out working two jobs to put food on the table or perhaps because of other issues like language difficulties in the case of new immigrants), how exactly are you supposed to develop the skills and knowledge to get admitted to university, to say nothing of qualifying for the scholarships you'd need to actually be able to pay for it?

Others have done it. Usually, with immigrants, it's the parents who struggle with the language, not the kids.
You can always come up with excuses. But there are ways, IF you're willing to do it.

If only we could get through to the kids when they're young. Prepare now!! It's much harder later!
When we raised our kids, it was a priority that I be a stay-at-home mom. We sacrificed to do it. So I was the one who prodded them on their homework, proof-read the papers, communicated with teachers. I helped research the college requirements and nagged, nagged, nagged.

When there's no parent at home with the kids, then who does this? So many of the choices you make in your youth will affect generations. It affects the life you give your kids, and what they then pass on to their kids.

It takes diligence, sacrifice, and committment. We need to teach our kids this, with no excuses. No early sex, no drugs, no extravegances creating debt. The parents have GOT to set the example. (Sorry--this is one of my passions.)

 

[nutshell]

Starfish, I believe the number of people who improve their situation is actually between 1 and 2%. I think someone posted the number and source earlier in this (now 14 page) thread.

 

[Mister_T]

There are always exceptions. I believe the vast majority could work like crazy and get educated in fields that have opportunities, if they choose. It's just that many don't choose it, and end up in trouble later.

Some choose the hard road early on, and end up on the easy road later. Some do it in reverse.

The "exceptions" are more common then you make them out to be. I believe people will intentionally over-generalize at the expense of honest, hard working people who struggle, in order to make something grey become a black and white issue.