If you put your religious book away for a moment.

[Spirit of Light]

Sir, this is very simple observation, irrespective of the Sufi path, or the christian path, or the atheist path etc, Let's not get caught in that trap of "paths" and look at facts.

What i am saying is nothing separate from what the choosers of paths do. Let's use the example pf your path. You first choose the Sufi path as being the best path for you, right. Then you started studying the teachings. Then you started to follow the given instructions. Then you try to be "better" in your practices and your reasoning, and so on. This, my friend, is called conformity, or trying to fit into the prescribed mold.

Seems like we think differently about what religious practice is and what it does for the practitioner

 

[Spirit of Light]

Well said! There is something always calming and good in your posts. May Thor protect you up there in Norway

Thank you @Wild Fox

 

[TSTS]

Seems like we think differently about what religious practice is and what it does for the practitioner

Sir, the question of "thinking differently" would arise if we were exchanging ideologies, that point doesn't arise when one is describing facts. A breakdown of facts has been given. Are you denying Sufisim is the path of your choice and you are it's practitioner, who is trying to perfect the teachings given in that path?

 

[MatthewA]

@Conscious thoughts Hope my comment did help understand a bit more why a person might end up studying the bible, and using quotes because the scripture is true; to a believer who believes in God, and Jesus Christ ~ and desires to learn more about them.

Like mentioned before though there is such a broad aspect of Christianity that is practiced in the world, with many denominations, through-out the entirety of earth.

To me practice in continuing to grow in faith in the trust of God, and become rooted in Christ Jesus a more a person becomes thankful for their life and to be thankful towards God, and to be thankful for others, and to pray for others, and to continue in having a relationship by having faith and trusting in the Christian God ~ and the Lord Jesus Christ by and through belief and prayer ~ There is so much to the bible when it comes to these teachings.

Also with all of these spiritual things above mentioned; when it comes to prayer and having access to God, and the Lord Jesus Christ ~ There is also a historical mark with-in the context of the bible; which has historical places, and people, and it is important to distinguish these things when it comes to reading the bible.

It is always going to be important to ask questions; Who is being talked to, Where are these people from? What place is this, what Economy was this like when it the place was being written to?

Who, why, what, when, where, how.

I do not personally have a chosen path of sufi; but the path of following Christ Jesus would be what would be my path; though I am not perfect as Christ Jesus was on his path, when he died for me and you, and the entire world; being raised again by God; paying for the ability for people have reconnection with God because of what Adam, and Eve and what they did at the start of the Garden of Eden.

Restoring the ability to those who believe; to have relationship with God, and have a piece of heaven now on earth with-in them by faith because of the spirit that now resides in a believer; and a believer can use the bible to establish what is the truth about God his nature, and about the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ, and about the truth of why Sin was paid for, and the truth of why the Spirit is needed and the truth about how the flesh is compared to the spirit.

Just so much information in the bible; and my apologizes for the letter; Thank you for you time, and hope you enjoy the rest of your day. If people do not believe what is presented here is okay! May God give you the increase - if you are a believer - Take care and also remember I am always capable of being wrong.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Sir, the question of "thinking differently" would arise if we were exchanging ideologies, that point doesn't arise when one is describing facts. A breakdown of facts has been given. Are you denying Sufisim is the path of your choice and you are it's practitioner, who is trying to perfect the teachings given in that path?

I do not deny that i did choose sufism of course i do not deny that.
The sufi practice is to purify once own inner being. to end every attachment to this physically world. i can not perfect the teaching, because the teaching is already perfect

 

[TSTS]

I do not deny that i did choose sufism of course i do not deny that.

Well there you go then. Please refer to my previous posts if you wish. Thank you.

Edit: By perfect the teachings i meant , to practice and perfect it in your own life

 

[Spirit of Light]

@Conscious thoughts Hope my comment did help understand a bit more why a person might end up studying the bible, and using quotes because the scripture is true; to a believer who believes in God, and Jesus Christ ~ and desires to learn more about them.

Like mentioned before though there is such a broad aspect of Christianity that is practiced in the world, with many denominations, through-out the entirety of earth.

To me practice in continuing to grow in faith in the trust of God, and become rooted in Christ Jesus a more a person becomes thankful for their life and to be thankful towards God, and to be thankful for others, and to pray for others, and to continue in having a relationship by having faith and trusting in the Christian God ~ and the Lord Jesus Christ by and through belief and prayer ~ There is so much to the bible when it comes to these teachings.

Also with all of these spiritual things above mentioned; when it comes to prayer and having access to God, and the Lord Jesus Christ ~ There is also a historical mark with-in the context of the bible; which has historical places, and people, and it is important to distinguish these things when it comes to reading the bible.

It is always going to be important to ask questions; Who is being talked to, Where are these people from? What place is this, what Economy was this like when it the place was being written to?

Who, why, what, when, where, how.

I do not personally have a chosen path of sufi; but the path of following Christ Jesus would be what would be my path; though I am not perfect as Christ Jesus was on his path, when he died for me and you, and the entire world; being raised again by God; paying for the ability for people have reconnection with God because of what Adam, and Eve and what they did at the start of the Garden of Eden.

Restoring the ability to those who believe; to have relationship with God, and have a piece of heaven now on earth with-in them by faith because of the spirit that now resides in a believer; and a believer can use the bible to establish what is the truth about God his nature, and about the truth of the Lord Jesus Christ, and about the truth of why Sin was paid for, and the truth of why the Spirit is needed and the truth about how the flesh is compared to the spirit.

Just so much information in the bible; and my apologizes for the letter; Thank you for you time, and hope you enjoy the rest of your day. If people do not believe what is presented here is okay! May God give you the increase - if you are a believer - Take care and also remember I am always capable of being wrong.

I believe what you write is very good for christians to read and take note in
For me as a sufi i do not reject the spiritual teaching others believe in, but i have chose the Quran and the sufi teaching to follow because it is the teaching closes to my heart, and the teaching that i have come to understand best.
Spiritual life is not about being better than others, or have a faith in a scripture and then claim it is better or more true than what others believe in. Spiritual lifestyle to me is to find the teaching that resonate the best with our own heart, and then elevate our wisdom by practicing the teaching we chosen

And honestly @MatthewA I am happy you found peace and love in your lord

 

[Dawnofhope]

Often in discussions, debates or other parts of RF one can experience that some people qoute from the chosen religious teaching they believe in. Whereas others often speak freely from their belief without the need of qoutes from religious teachings.

Question: How do you feel if you would not be allowed to use qoutes but only your own words and understanding to discuss a religious topic? In this kind of discussion it would be best if one used the phrase "in my understanding" before one answer the question.

Would you feel unsure about your own ability to have deep understanding of the teaching without the need for qoutes?
Or would you feel ok in a discussion without the scripture to back up your own understanding?

I tend to discuss my religious views using my own words. I may refer to quotes if people are requesting specific information or a criticism of the Baha’i Faith is made that requires correction or clarification.

 

[MatthewA]

I believe what you write is very good for christians to read and take note in
For me as a sufi i do not reject the spiritual teaching others believe in, but i have chose the Quran and the sufi teaching to follow because it is the teaching closes to my heart, and the teaching that i have come to understand best.
Spiritual life is not about being better than others, or have a faith in a scripture and then claim it is better or more true than what others believe in. Spiritual lifestyle to me is to find the teaching that resonate the best with our own heart, and then elevate our wisdom by practicing the teaching we chosen

And honestly @MatthewA I am happy you found peace and love in your lord

It is interesting and very well noted that you do believe it is helpful information to other people who might be seeking and looking in to the bible.

Understand that you choose the Quran for it something you know the best along with sufi teaching, and that is what is closest to your heart. And maybe something you enjoy studying in practice as well?

I believe that the purpose of life is to (Matthew 22:36-40) love each other, and to love God and not to become prideful over someone (Galatians 5:25-26), or look down on another person (1 John 4:20), or (Matthew 26:67) spit in a persons face, but by the spirit of Christ (Galatians 2:20): to love: have joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, forgiveness, mercy, forbearance, long-suffering towards others, patience, and self-control. (Galatians 5:22-23) Spiritual life (John 10:10) brings forth good fruit ~ for those who are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ because they have been (John 3) born again (becoming from spiritually dead to spiritually alive) from above by the spirit. In which God renews a person mind (Romans 12:2-12) and heart (Ezekiel 36:26) (According to Christian Scriptures).

If that is what you enjoy, will tell you my thoughts on it, but will not deter you from whatever it is you seek.

Thank you for the polite conversation, @Conscious thoughts

 

[Spirit of Light]

I tend to discuss my religious views using my own words. I may refer to quotes if people are requesting specific information or a criticism of the Baha’i Faith is made that requires correction or clarification.

Agree with you on this i might check the scripture before i give an answer in RF, but only if i am unable to describe the verse or section of the teaching will i use qoutes

 

[Spirit of Light]

It is interesting and very well noted that you do believe it is helpful information to other people who might be seeking and looking in to the bible.

Understand that you choose the Quran for it something you know the best along with sufi teaching, and that is what is closest to your heart. And maybe something you enjoy studying in practice as well?

I believe that the purpose of life is to (Matthew 22:36-40) love each other, and to love God and not to become prideful over someone (Galatians 5:25-26), or look down on another person (1 John 4:20), or (Matthew 26:67) spit in a persons face, but by the spirit of Christ (Galatians 2:20): to love: have joy, peace, kindness, gentleness, forgiveness, mercy, forbearance, long-suffering towards others, patience, and self-control. (Galatians 5:22-23) Spiritual life (John 10:10) brings forth good fruit ~ for those who are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ because they have been (John 3) born again (becoming from spiritually dead to spiritually alive) from above by the spirit. In which God renews a person mind (Romans 12:2-12) and heart (Ezekiel 36:26) (According to Christian Scriptures).

If that is what you enjoy, will tell you my thoughts on it, but will not deter you from whatever it is you seek.

Thank you for the polite conversation, @Conscious thoughts

Thank you for your reply @MatthewA and you are very welcome, i do like our conversation too

 

[John1.12]

Often in discussions, debates or other parts of RF one can experience that some people qoute from the chosen religious teaching they believe in. Whereas others often speak freely from their belief without the need of qoutes from religious teachings.

Question: How do you feel if you would not be allowed to use qoutes but only your own words and understanding to discuss a religious topic? In this kind of discussion it would be best if one used the phrase "in my understanding" before one answer the question.

Would you feel unsure about your own ability to have deep understanding of the teaching without the need for qoutes?
Or would you feel ok in a discussion without the scripture to back up your own understanding?

In Christianity this is one of the major problems. Many churches/ teachers teach without using the bible or quoting from it . I believe this keeps people away from the truth and leads to deception. Because you can smuggle in false teaching by ' half truths ect . A little anecdote here a liberal application there . A good teacher is one who teaches that you follow along with the bible and check what he's saying is biblical. I believe the bible comes from God , that its true and God cannot lie .

 

[Spirit of Light]

In Christianity this is one of the major problems. Many churches/ teachers teach without using the bible or quoting from it . I believe this keeps people away from the truth and leads to deception. Because you can smuggle in false teaching by ' half truths ect . A little anecdote here a liberal application there . A good teacher is one who teaches that you follow along with the bible and check what he's saying is biblical. I believe the bible comes from God , that its true and God cannot lie .

I do also believe we would benefit from knowing the teaching by heart so we know when we speak that even we use our own words, we are within the teaching.

But i do have one question, and i hope you do not mind.
Since you rely heavy on the scripture alone. what if as described in the OP you were asked to use your own words, and not use qoutes from the bible. would you be able to keep the same level of wisdom in your discussion as you do when you mostly use qoutes?

 

[John1.12]

I do also believe we would benefit from knowing the teaching by heart so we know when we speak that even we use our own words, we are within the teaching.

But i do have one question, and i hope you do not mind.
Since you rely heavy on the scripture alone. what if as described in the OP you were asked to use your own words, and not use qoutes from the bible. would you be able to keep the same level of wisdom in your discussion as you do when you mostly use qoutes?

The more I learn the bible , understand and rightly divide and apply it ,the more I can give an answer for the reasons and the hope I have within me . In my own words . Let's say after I was saved ,( recieved Jesus)i remained on what the bible describes as the ' milk ', and i did not mature ( grow in wisdom through understanding the scriptures) ,then what I would share in my own words would be limited to that ( milk and not meat ) . An example would be sharing these verses
1 cor 15 . 1-4
1¶Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3¶For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Now this is the Gospel . Its what the bible says is how a person is saved ( through trusting in it, the atonement for our sins )
Ok, now I can share this word for word . But I can also relate to whoever I'm speaking to . It could be anyone, so I would say in my own words to make it relatable . Or easy to understood . But not to change the meaning, or use clever words, flattering ,or dressing things up . If its God's words ( from God) ,and I believe it is , then that's pretty weighty . Theres a responsibility there for the reader to get it right.
Notice in the verses above it says ' according to the Scriptures ' . So I need to make sure it is .

 

[nPeace]

Often in discussions, debates or other parts of RF one can experience that some people qoute from the chosen religious teaching they believe in. Whereas others often speak freely from their belief without the need of qoutes from religious teachings.

Question: How do you feel if you would not be allowed to use qoutes but only your own words and understanding to discuss a religious topic? In this kind of discussion it would be best if one used the phrase "in my understanding" before one answer the question.

Would you feel unsure about your own ability to have deep understanding of the teaching without the need for qoutes?
Or would you feel ok in a discussion without the scripture to back up your own understanding?

I personally believe in using references for what I say, because it limits useless arguing by opinion.
So whether scripture or secular source, I feel more comfortable using these. They save me precious time, and puts the argument to rest... one time.

 

[nPeace]

From what i have read of your previous OP and posts i have to say i think you would be very good in your answers without the bible next to you to me it seems like Jehovah`s Witness do know their bible very well. I have spoken to many JW where i live, and it is very seldom i see they take the bible to check them self in what they say, only if i ask where in the bibel it is written will they pull the bible out to show me.

I can't speak for the JWs where you live, because in some lands, using the Bible may not be accepted readily, so the JWs there may open it less.
It depend on the circumstances.
However, the recommendation, is to always draw attention to the Bible as supplying the answer.
That way people see, it is not our word, or opinion, and the words in scripture are more effective at reaching their heart.

Watchtower 2019 November page 11 paragraph 15 - How Holy Spirit Helps Us
When we use the Bible in the preaching and teaching work, we allow holy spirit to be involved in our ministry. (Rom. 15:18, 19) To benefit fully from God’s spirit, though, you must have a regular share in the preaching work and use the Bible whenever possible.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I can't speak for the JWs where you live, because in some lands, using the Bible may not be accepted readily, so the JWs there may open it less.
It depend on the circumstances.
However, the recommendation, is to always draw attention to the Bible as supplying the answer.
That way people see, it is not our word, or opinion, and the words in scripture are more effective at reaching their heart.

Watchtower 2019 November page 11 paragraph 15 - How Holy Spirit Helps Us
When we use the Bible in the preaching and teaching work, we allow holy spirit to be involved in our ministry. (Rom. 15:18, 19) To benefit fully from God’s spirit, though, you must have a regular share in the preaching work and use the Bible whenever possible.

The JW i spoken with here have been those i meet in the street or if they knock on my door (they are always welcome in)

 

[nPeace]

Your reply is just as valid as other who have answered @TSTS
I believe that to be able to hold our own understanding of the teaching is what make us develop wisdom from within, and if we blindly rely only on the scripture we will not fully be able to excel spiritually.

But everyone here will have their understanding of what is right way to practice for them. so my answer is not put in concrete as the only true answer

I'm interested in that expression "if we blindly rely only on the scripture". What do you mean by that?

 

[nPeace]

The JW i spoken with here have been those i meet in the street or if they knock on my door (they are always welcome in)

You actually know JWs here personally! That's great!

 

[Spirit of Light]

I'm interested in that expression "if we blindly rely only on the scripture". What do you mean by that?

The meaning behind this is that if we read the scripture and dont ask our self "what does it actually means" but only say " i believe it with no questions asked" to me that is blind faith.

It may mean something else to others of course