If your holy book fails to match reality ...

[Hockeycowboy]

Now you are guilty of picking and choosing what parts of the Bible to believe. Why do you not reject the myths of Genesis as you reject the morals of the Old Testament version of God. Though the New Testament does advocate violence as well. It all matters on which parts of the Bible one picks and chooses.

I'm not cherry picking anything, I believe all of it. I also understand the God behind it.

The Israelites were a nation, with divinely-given borders. They needed protection, and got it as long as they were obedient. That's really the important thing (1 Samuel 15:22).

Christians don't have any borders to protect, we're worldwide.

Where do you think the NT advocates violence for Christians?

 

[Audie]

Only the misinterpretations are flawed.

Never the endlessly conflicting interpretations, guided, each, by
God unto the power of infallible readin"?

Really, you know, that is what all of you guys do.

Who is the lucky-to- beinfallible one?
All of thrm?
Cant be two readin's both correcy

It makes it easy for us atheists to choose -
we dont believe any of you.

The ones such as JW or baptists who go so off
the deep end are the least believable. Noahs
Ark?QFM? Honestly.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not cherry picking anything, I believe all of it. I also understand the God behind it.

The Israelites were a nation, with divinely-given borders. They needed protection, and got it as long as they were obedient. That's really the important thing (1 Samuel 15:22).

Christians don't have any borders to protect, we're worldwide.

Where do you think the NT advocates violence for Christians?

Since it is self contradictory one cannot. The excuse that parts of it apply only to Israel simply does not fly. And the evils done in God's name in the Old Testament were still evils. If God ordered them then God is evil. You seem to believe in a weak God that had to have everything just right to forgive people for something that was his fault in the first place. A literal interpretation of the Bible is self refuting due to the internal inconsistencies.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

In several discussions here recently, religious participants appear to privilege scripture over reality.

Creationist organizations even state this openly in their "statements of faith"

Recent examples here involve the Noachian flood and claims that ordinary processes can transmute elements.

How can people honestly sustain such intellectual dishonesty?

If your holy book says the moon is made of cheese, will you take crackers when you go there?

The key is to find your spiritual nourishment and not to discount a statement purely on its face value.

No passage from God is wrong, only our understanding.

The other issue are if the original writing is as originally revealed. Thus translation from the original language can also be an issue as can a text that is not original, but altered by man.

Regards Tony

 

[whirlingmerc]

In several discussions here recently, religious participants appear to privilege scripture over reality.

Creationist organizations even state this openly in their "statements of faith"

Recent examples here involve the Noachian flood and claims that ordinary processes can transmute elements.

How can people honestly sustain such intellectual dishonesty?

If your holy book says the moon is made of cheese, will you take crackers when you go there?

If your atheist pre suppositions don't match reality what would you do?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Never the endlessly conflicting interpretations, guided, each, by
God unto the power of infallible readin"?

Really, you know, that is what all of you guys do.

Who is the lucky-to- beinfallible one?
All of thrm?
Cant be two readin's both correcy

It makes it easy for us atheists to choose -
we dont believe any of you.

The ones such as JW or baptists who go so off
the deep end are the least believable. Noahs
Ark?QFM? Honestly.

You're right, about both readings / interpretations can't be correct. (Both interpretations can be wrong, though...I understand that, too.) So, what should people look for? I'll try to make this as succinct as I can.....
"The one doing the will of my Father", Jesus said (Matthew 7:21-23). What's his Father's will? Cf. 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9b... Jehovah’s desire / will, is that “all come to an accurate knowledge”; “all should come to repentance.” Both require preaching. And who provides this 'truth' to teach others? Not Jesus.... his Father (Luke 10:21), whose name is clearly given at Psalms 83:18.

Jesus also stated that his genuine followers would be ID'd by... well, just read John 13:34-35.

(Nothing in Scripture can unquestionably contradict these statements.)

So, in a nutshell, a group that has a united and loving global brotherhood, actively preaching the ideals of "the only true God (John 17:3)", and worshipping only Him (John 4:23-24; Exodus 20:1-4), should be what those searching for God should look for.


It's not nonsense, as most might wish.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The excuse that parts of it apply only to Israel simply does not fly.

According to who? You? Not the Bible...

Circumcision, a big part of the Law, was for the Israelites to obey. Is it for Christians to follow? No. Acts of the Apostles 15 tells Christians that it is not important.
(You should know that.)

There are some requirements: Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29

Yes, it 'flies'....from the Bible's own words.

 

[Subduction Zone]

According to who? You? Not the Bible...

Circumcision, a big part of the Law, was for the Israelites to obey. Is it for Christians to follow? No. Acts of the Apostles 15 tells Christians that it is not important.
(You should know that.)

There are some requirements: Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29

Yes, it 'flies'....from the Bible's own words.

Now you are trying to apply one exception to all. You end up employing special pleading fallacies again and again.

 

[Audie]

You're right, about both readings / interpretations can't be correct. (Both interpretations can be wrong, though...I understand that, too.) So, what should people look for? I'll try to make this as succinct as I can.....
"The one doing the will of my Father", Jesus said (Matthew 7:21-23). What's his Father's will? Cf. 1 Timothy 2:4; 2 Peter 3:9b... Jehovah’s desire / will, is that “all come to an accurate knowledge”; “all should come to repentance.” Both require preaching. And who provides this 'truth' to teach others? Not Jesus.... his Father (Luke 10:21), whose name is clearly given at Psalms 83:18.

Jesus also stated that his genuine followers would be ID'd by... well, just read John 13:34-35.

(Nothing in Scripture can unquestionably contradict these statements.)

So, in a nutshell, a group that has a united and loving global brotherhood, actively preaching the ideals of "the only true God (John 17:3)", and worshipping only Him (John 4:23-24; Exodus 20:1-4), should be what those searching for God should look for.


It's not nonsense, as most might wish.

Ah, so it is the Mormons.

Of course, they all say as you do- that they got
it right.

Asserting it is not nonsense is deeply unconvincing.

I dont know that people wish JW int so.

If it were, I'd say, terrific!

Also, of course, seeing JW as regresdive anti-
intellectual and downright silly nonsense is
quite different from that wish thing.

Now, ifn I was to be go searching for god, I might
not go for the interpretations of a church noted as
having such a low level of education. It makes
people susceptible to cons and baloney.

Also, the teachings of a creed that so goes against
common sense / smell test..nah.

Then too- if someone really believes "flood" not much
of anything more or less related to that, from them,
will ever be accepted without solid outside verification.

So would I believe JW readin' was it? Ifn there is a "it",
that ain't it. Sorry-ah, itis nonsense, however much
you may wish it is all true.

ETA- everything in your bible questionable,
exceptin', that is the complete b.s.

 

[Audie]

According to who? You? Not the Bible...

Circumcision, a big part of the Law, was for the Israelites to obey. Is it for Christians to follow? No. Acts of the Apostles 15 tells Christians that it is not important.
(You should know that.)

There are some requirements: Acts of the Apostles 15:28-29

Yes, it 'flies'....from the Bible's own words.

The bibles own words say jesus is a door and slavery is
groovy. That Pi is 3.000, and and and.

 

[Audie]

If your atheist pre suppositions don't match reality what would you do?

Show us data, and we will change! That is intellectual
honesty.

Do you have it?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Now you are trying to apply one exception to all. You end up employing special pleading fallacies again and again.

Special pleadings, Lol!
Those words are clear in their meaning.

Some want to stay blind, that's on them.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Special pleadings, Lol!
Those words are clear in their meaning.

Some want to stay blind, that's on them.

No, if they were clear there would not be countless different sects of Christianity. Many of them make the same mistake that you do, claiming that the "meaning is clear" yet you will find all sorts of variations from Jehovah's Witnesses to Universalists. When you keep claiming that it was different for some weak reason that is special pleading.

 

[Audie]

Special pleadings, Lol!
Those words are clear in their meaning.

Some want to stay blind, that's on them.

Check yr mirror, ya swab! Or no, the blind..oh never mind.

 

[Looncall]

The key is to find your spiritual nourishment and not to discount a statement purely on its face value.

No passage from God is wrong, only our understanding.

The other issue are if the original writing is as originally revealed. Thus translation from the original language can also be an issue as can a text that is not original, but altered by man.

Regards Tony

Oh yes, the universal cop-out.

 

[Sapiens]

People are free to believe whatever they want to believe as long as it hurts no-one.

Voiced or advocated ignorance hurts everybody.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

“jesus is a door”..... A door? Is this a reference to John 14:6?

“slavery is groovy”..... Never read that it was groovy. That it was a part of society, 2000 yrs.ago +? Yes. Was it started by Jehovah? No.

“Pi is 3.000”..... I assume you’re referring to 1 Kings 7. To think the ancients knew no math, is very naive.

There are many explanations for this difference...only if one is predisposed, reflecting a closed mind, would they not be willing to consider possible reasons. Let me ask you this: would a basin that size, made of metal, require reinforcement? Turning a lip / brim outward would help to accomplish that, and could account for the seeming discrepancy.

Prior to Archimedes of the 3rd Cent. B.C.E., measurements were made using straight lines.
Hence:

The circumfrence was 30 cubits
A cubit was 18 inches
So the circumference was 540 inches.
Divide that by pi; you get a diameter of 172 inches.
Then add the handbreadth thickness of 4 inches x 2 = 8 inches
Total width is 180 inches
Divide that by 18 to convert it back to cubits
Answer is 10 cubits.

It fits the Biblical record.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

....something that was his fault in the first place.

“His fault” for endowing A&E — indeed everyone, you included — the ability to refuse His guidance?

What most don’t understand, including many professing Christians, is how the Resurrection is going to give humankind another chance at life and will rectify all the Injustices ever perpetrated on others. — John 5:28-29: Revelation 21:3-4.


These 70 to 90 years we have, before dying, are nothing compared to the endless life we’ll have the opportunity to enjoy, when Jehovah’s “will be done on Earth” — Matthew 6:9-10.


You neither care, nor want to know how it all fits. (Maybe others will find it engaging.)

 

[Thief]

That's actually scary... for people to be willing to believe the impossible????

Maybe Christians really are a flock of sheep.

this is true
and sheep must be led to water

but faith isn't for all

 

[Subduction Zone]

“His fault” for endowing A&E — indeed everyone, you included — the ability to refuse His guidance?

What most don’t understand, including many professing Christians, is how the Resurrection is going to give humankind another chance at life and will rectify all the Injustices ever perpetrated on others. — John 5:28-29: Revelation 21:3-4.


These 70 to 90 years we have, before dying, are nothing compared to the endless life we’ll have the opportunity to enjoy, when Jehovah’s “will be done on Earth” — Matthew 6:9-10.


You neither care, nor want to know how it all fits. (Maybe others will find it engaging.)

If you read the myth he forgot to gave them the ability to know right from wrong. That point alone destroys any argument that you want to make to excuse the evil version of God in a literal reading of Genesis.