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I'm done.

Revasser

Terrible Dancer
Well, it's happened. Was it inevitable? Perhaps. A simple, unavoidable result of my upbringing or of personal intellectual inquiry or of brainwashing by the evil secular liberal media elite? I don't know for sure. Either way, I feel I'm back to pretty much where I was a few years ago, though perhaps a little more knowledgable and, hopefully, a little more mature now.

After a very interesting jaunt into religiousity, I'm now at a stage where I feel comfortable and confident in publically saying that I no longer consider myself religious. You could say I have (re)joined the ranks of the agnostic atheists.

I would love to say that this was a result of applying rigorous logical thought process and reason to various beliefs and arguments, but I'm afraid that would be rather dishonest of me. You see, I am not, nor have I ever been, a person particularly disposed to the sort of hard logic that many non-theists value and employ, especially in arguing their position. I have always been more inclined to act and think along intuitive and emotional lines. It can be difficult, since such a trait seems to be largely considered a character flaw in our culture, especially for a male. I often find myself a little envious of those who appear to be able to think in a more directly logical fashion, but in the end, I do not think I would wish to be any different than I am, character flaw or no.

So no, I have not arrived at this position through a great application of logic, but rather simply through an intuitive examination of my beliefs and those of others and allowing myself to take a more integrational approach to some very persuasive arguments in favour of non-theism, many of which have been made on this very forum.

It is shocking how deeply ingrained some beliefs can become. I had not even nearly lived a life of religion like many people, and still I am astounded. I cannot even begin to imagine what the transition must be like for those who have spent a lifetime with religion but who then go on to become non-theists. My respect and admiration for such people has increased tenfold, a hundredfold, as has my sympathy even after receiving what must surely be a comparitively light dose of the internal conflcit that can result from a loss of faith.

So here I am. No great scientific enlightenment, no emergence into a world of logic, just basest emotion, intuition and feeling has led me here. In that spirit, I feel I've come home again after a journey into the wilderness. A journey I don't regret in the least, but it's good to come home.

Well, I've bored you all quite enough. Thanks for reading though. :)
 

BrandonE

King of Parentheses
Revasser said:
I would love to say that this was a result of applying rigorous logical thought process and reason to various beliefs and arguments, but I'm afraid that would be rather dishonest of me. You see, I am not, nor have I ever been, a person particularly disposed to the sort of hard logic that many non-theists value and employ, especially in arguing their position. I have always been more inclined to act and think along intuitive and emotional lines. It can be difficult, since such a trait seems to be largely considered a character flaw in our culture, especially for a male. I often find myself a little envious of those who appear to be able to think in a more directly logical fashion, but in the end, I do not think I would wish to be any different than I am, character flaw or no.
Not at all a boring post, Revasser. That paragraph in particular rang like a struck bell for me. I share your disposition toward "emotional intuition" over the hard discipline of logic. I'm simply not disciplined of mind enough to endlessly weigh the possibilities, and prefer to "feel" my way through, listening for the resonance of truth, like in your paragraph above.

Glad that you've found your way to where you need to be (for now anyway ;)).

Peace,
Brandon
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Revasser said:
Well, I've bored you all quite enough. Thanks for reading though. :)
Actually Revasser, you are never boring. Congratulations on your accomplishment. Now the real fun can begin!
 

Revasser

Terrible Dancer
Thanks everyone. :hug:

It feels good to have gotten over my indecision on this problem. :yes:
 

ChrisP

Veteran Member
Revasser said:
You see, I am not, nor have I ever been, a person particularly disposed to the sort of hard logic that many non-theists value and employ, especially in arguing their position. I have always been more inclined to act and think along intuitive and emotional lines. It can be difficult, since such a trait seems to be largely considered a character flaw in our culture, especially for a male
;) That's society's problem Mr. Fox. Everything and everyone has it's time place and usefulness.


As for your new found weak Atheism, can't say it surprised me talking to you lately. Good on you for taking the time to think your heart through :)
 

Truls

Thinker
You were wrong on one thing. No one chooses their religion or faith based on logic. Logic reinforces secular beliefs, but it does not invoke them. No most agnostics and atheits become agnostics and atheists because they feel that that orthodox religons are lying to them. It's a sense a feeling that we get that leads us to believe what we do. Very few people become agnostic or atheist based on some logical conclusion or proof. People choose their faith based on feelings even if their faith is in logic so don't feel bad.
 

Mavrikmind

Active Member
Congrats for finding a place that is comfortable for you. Many of us will continue to wade through feelings and thoughts. I subscribe to your thoughts about logic and using ones feelings. Good luck
 

robtex

Veteran Member
Josh for the last 6 months I considered you an agnostic atheist. I didn't realize you were considering yourself something else. You never listed a religion and were making secular based arguements and opinions for quite a while now.

Congradulations though!! What are your parents religion and do they activly practice it? Is the area of Aussie you are in religiously feverent or more relaxed about religion?
 

Revasser

Terrible Dancer
You'll notice this thread is almost 6 months old now, Rob. ;)

Though I had been slipping for a little while before that also.

But to answer your questions, my parents aren't religious at all. My dad is (as far as I can tell) an agnostic with a distaste for "organised religion" and my mum is much the same, though she dabbled a little in New Agery a few years ago.

Religion hasn't been a big deal in Australia for a while, though recent clashes with Islam and the rise of the Religious Right in the USA seem to have stoked the fires of piety among some of our more hardline domestic Christians. But all in all, Australia isn't a very religious place and my area is no exception. There are plenty of churches, but most of them seem to be attended almost exclusively by over-60s. There's no problem being an atheist around here. The most common response is one of mild surprise that I'd be interested enough in the subject to have actually bothered to take a position.
 
Revasser said:
You'll notice this thread is almost 6 months old now, Rob. ;)

Though I had been slipping for a little while before that also.

But to answer your questions, my parents aren't religious at all. My dad is (as far as I can tell) an agnostic with a distaste for "organised religion" and my mum is much the same, though she dabbled a little in New Agery a few years ago.

Religion hasn't been a big deal in Australia for a while, though recent clashes with Islam and the rise of the Religious Right in the USA seem to have stoked the fires of piety among some of our more hardline domestic Christians. But all in all, Australia isn't a very religious place and my area is no exception. There are plenty of churches, but most of them seem to be attended almost exclusively by over-60s. There's no problem being an atheist around here. The most common response is one of mild surprise that I'd be interested enough in the subject to have actually bothered to take a position.

I actually felt quite free being agnostic, having no "boss" or "upper management" in the sky to take orders from. You almost sound as if you wish you could go back to your "secure" beliefs of religion
 

Flappycat

Well-Known Member
Revasser said:
It can be difficult, since such a trait seems to be largely considered a character flaw in our culture, especially for a male. I often find myself a little envious of those who appear to be able to think in a more directly logical fashion, but in the end, I do not think I would wish to be any different than I am, character flaw or no.
Great. We have more than enough vulcan-eared rationalists out there already, so consider yourself a needed addition.

My respect and admiration for such people has increased tenfold, a hundredfold, as has my sympathy even after receiving what must surely be a comparitively light dose of the internal conflcit that can result from a loss of faith.
Unfortunately, far too many just tire of their hearts being broken. There are only so many blows you can take before you lose your ability to believe in anything at all. Don't confuse enlightened secularists with the spiritually crippled.

So here I am. No great scientific enlightenment, no emergence into a world of logic, just basest emotion, intuition and feeling has led me here. In that spirit, I feel I've come home again after a journey into the wilderness. A journey I don't regret in the least, but it's good to come home.
Deciding against religion is just the start. Get started on determining what you really do believe in. Having something to embrace gives you a lot more self-confidence when discussing these issues with others, and it gives your life some sense of direction.

Well, I've bored you all quite enough. Thanks for reading though. :)
It's a pleasure.
 

Dr. Nosophoros

Active Member
Well you know as "old man" Jameson always said:

"It's better to hold your nuts above your head than have them smashed to bits by a booger eatin' kid on a walk behind"

Never really knew what he meant by that but damn- he was one wise old geezer.
 
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