DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Thanks, Dallas, that's really kind of you
Are you picking on me already!!!! Why I ought a!!!
GRRR>>>> lOL!!
Love
Dallas
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I'm now an atheist
- Thread starter Phasmid
- Start date
Are you picking on me already!!!! Why I ought a!!!
GRRR>>>> lOL!!
Love
Dallas
Phasmid
Mr Invisible
DallasApple
Depends Upon My Mood..
Huh? No I just found your post touching
...good...good..touching is good..hearts and minds..
Love
Dallas
Troublemane
Well-Known Member
Congratz Phasmid, the first step towards establishing an open dialogue with the Cosmos (God, Great Spirit, Brahama, Allah, Ain'Soph, Existence, whatever, etc.) is to completely transcend/let go of any and all symbols for the almighty you might have lying around. Its like the Zen saying of how can you receive anything if your cup is already full?:angel2:
zenzero
Its only a Label
Friend Phasmid,
Surely a step in the right direction. It shows that you have started to question.
Personally have trvelled through Observer, non-beliver, communist sympathiser, drug addict [ grass, hash, bhang] finally a meditator. Meditation is the only way to get all answeres on its own from existence itself who is the greatest teacher [atleast for me]
But surely one has to start by questioning and trying and finding answeres till the mind is at rest.
One can Directly put the Mind at Rest by meditating.
Whatever path you choose do so with conviction; the end result will always be to your satisfaction.
Love & rgds
I'm now an atheist
I've been struggling to come to terms with Christianity for some time now. The more I think about it, the more absurd it seems to me.
Surely a step in the right direction. It shows that you have started to question.
Personally have trvelled through Observer, non-beliver, communist sympathiser, drug addict [ grass, hash, bhang] finally a meditator. Meditation is the only way to get all answeres on its own from existence itself who is the greatest teacher [atleast for me]
But surely one has to start by questioning and trying and finding answeres till the mind is at rest.
One can Directly put the Mind at Rest by meditating.
Whatever path you choose do so with conviction; the end result will always be to your satisfaction.
Love & rgds
TurkeyOnRye
Well-Known Member
I am very happy for you! Like the others have said, your sense of freedom and liberation will only deepen as you continue with your life. You'll find meaning in things in ways you've never percieved before. Welcome to living in the now.
Jordan St. Francis
Well-Known Member
If its matter of reconciling the problem of faith and reason, I do suggest you continue in this search, rather than giving up on God for the feeling of peace you are recieving right now. With the experiecnes of God you detailed, it is hardly a surprise you feel at peace after having him let you go. You may a be a victim of poor theology.
There are other methods of biblical exegisis other than that of the strictly literal value. Ancient Christianity, for example, utilized a tripartite method: the literal, the moral, the allegorical. Scripture has multiple layers of meaning, and not each and every instance is neccessarily anchored in a literal event. The question of evolution comes to mind. Christians of orthodox theology are by no means compelled to believe that there was a historical person called Adam and another called Eve, or that the world is in its current mess on account of an apple. In fact, quite often, the stress on its historicity in current times leads many to overlook the rich truth of the creation account.
This is not Gnosticism, nor is this to nullify the historic sense of Scripture. Christianity teaches that the abstract, that the principles supporting and driving the human "drama", that truth itself, has and does play out among us in persons.
There are other methods of biblical exegisis other than that of the strictly literal value. Ancient Christianity, for example, utilized a tripartite method: the literal, the moral, the allegorical. Scripture has multiple layers of meaning, and not each and every instance is neccessarily anchored in a literal event. The question of evolution comes to mind. Christians of orthodox theology are by no means compelled to believe that there was a historical person called Adam and another called Eve, or that the world is in its current mess on account of an apple. In fact, quite often, the stress on its historicity in current times leads many to overlook the rich truth of the creation account.
This is not Gnosticism, nor is this to nullify the historic sense of Scripture. Christianity teaches that the abstract, that the principles supporting and driving the human "drama", that truth itself, has and does play out among us in persons.
robtex
Veteran Member
Luke congratulations!!! Congratulations for being resourceful and making a calculated decision and thinking it through. Congratulations for overcoming the guilt trip associated with your old system of perceiving reality. Congratulations for seeing and looking at other ideas instead of marrying the one you were given by cultural-geographical situations. Congratulations for taking full responsiblity for your future choices and morality and finally congratulations for being free to be you and not a product a religion's dogma.
It will hopefully give you a emphatic understanding when Christians tell you you will burn in hell. It fades quickly. I bet 6 months from now You read this and laugh that you ever thought that way. I hope you comb the atheist threads in here and find comfort that you are in good company. :yes:
Phasmid
Mr Invisible
Phasmid
Mr Invisible
I appreciate what you're saying, my friend, but I've already thought about this... and I feel that a lot of intelligent people, like yourself, find meaning in the Bible, which the original author's never even intended.
In essence, you're probably much smarter than them, yet your belief in scripture and faith in God means you get more out of the Bible than what the scribes put in.
Jordan St. Francis
Well-Known Member
Yet, if we do believe that there is a God [and I know this question appears to be settled] and that this God really does reach out to humanity through humanity, that is, mediating himself through the world and human society, then it should come as no surprise to us that the author would pen something that resonates beyond the time and place that he has written in.
If we are talking about the future, past and meaning of man, and not in a superificial way like an anthropology or a biological scheme, but as man stands in himself and how he ought to relate to the world, then we are immediately talking about the primoridal. We are using the words of legend and myth and entering a language of symbols and signs that indicate a reality greater than any one of us.
I am very suspicious of a method of reading the bible that places it in a category of inevitably "dated" knowledge because we treat it like the empirically based "text books" of our day. When we treat the ancient world like that, when it just becomes another brick laid on our pyramid of progress, or worse, when we discard it as simple people's superstition, when we fail to see ancient man standing also beside us, not simply behind us, we obscure the total, or I would say, eternal image of man.
No, I do not think of myself as smarter than the author of the Genesis, simply because I live in a "smarter age". For is it not possible that, in any age, man can and does understand the world in a real and eternally valid way? Does nothing resound out and ripple through all times? No one can speak once, to which then all men will add their voice? Or is each piece of knowledge doomed to indefinite revised editions based on our fresher and improved perspectives until man has progressed into the image of something wholly unrecognizable to his past?
I wish you the best of luck.
If we are talking about the future, past and meaning of man, and not in a superificial way like an anthropology or a biological scheme, but as man stands in himself and how he ought to relate to the world, then we are immediately talking about the primoridal. We are using the words of legend and myth and entering a language of symbols and signs that indicate a reality greater than any one of us.
I am very suspicious of a method of reading the bible that places it in a category of inevitably "dated" knowledge because we treat it like the empirically based "text books" of our day. When we treat the ancient world like that, when it just becomes another brick laid on our pyramid of progress, or worse, when we discard it as simple people's superstition, when we fail to see ancient man standing also beside us, not simply behind us, we obscure the total, or I would say, eternal image of man.
No, I do not think of myself as smarter than the author of the Genesis, simply because I live in a "smarter age". For is it not possible that, in any age, man can and does understand the world in a real and eternally valid way? Does nothing resound out and ripple through all times? No one can speak once, to which then all men will add their voice? Or is each piece of knowledge doomed to indefinite revised editions based on our fresher and improved perspectives until man has progressed into the image of something wholly unrecognizable to his past?
I wish you the best of luck.
Phasmid
Mr Invisible
You're a very eloquent poster, Jordan, but I can't get into the deep meaning (if there is any) of the Bible. I'm a rational person and the Bible... seems extremely incoherent to me. I struggle to understand it, not only because of the subject matter, but also because of the format.
Again, I appreciate what you're saying, but the same could be said for any and all religious dogma. I find my new way of thinking so much simpler... no stress... just facts.
Again, I appreciate what you're saying, but the same could be said for any and all religious dogma. I find my new way of thinking so much simpler... no stress... just facts.
doppelganger
Through the Looking Glass
One thing to consider is that the arbitrary collection of writings clumped together as "the Bible" don't necessarily belong together. There's no prohibition against finding deeper meanings in some parts of it and thinking other parts are worthless (unless you arbitrarily decide there is such a prohibition, but obviously you've moved beyond such silliness). And those meanings don't necessarily depend on "belief in God" in the sense that we think about it today. As myth, the action is psychological rather than ontological/metaphysical.
Phasmid
Mr Invisible
doppelgänger;1177416 said:
Upon re-reading the post you quoted I think I gave the wrong impression. I can appreciate that the Bible has meaning... it does. But I personally struggle to find any... it's very difficult to read. If I read a book e.g. "The Colour of Magic" - Terry Pratchett, then the words flow and build a picture. But I don't get that with the Bible. Probably because it's a translation... but I still struggle to read it without constantly stopping and reading the same sentence over and over in an attempt to see if I'm missing something important.
I still follow Christian morality. I believe there is wisdom in Jesus' message, I just don't believe there's a God. In the same way I think Islam has wisdom. I especially like the Muslim custom of giving a certain percentage of your earnings to charity.
But any "deep meaning" in the Bible, doesn't necessarily pertain to there being a God. It merely means the ones who wrote the Bible, were very deep and insightful people... sometimes.
fire
Member
I strongly 2nd your observation!
Alceste
Vagabond
As far as literary mediums for a spiritual message are concerned, the Bible is the worst, most incoherent, contradictory, irrelevant and difficult book I've ever read. The "message" within is so obscured with clutter and randomness that it sometimes seems as if nobody really "gets it", least of all Christians who believe it's an important message from god from cover to cover.
Greater clarity, relevance and coherence can be found in Jonathan Livingstone Seagull, the Prophet, the Little Prince, God Bless You Mr Rosewater, Siddhartha, Anam Cara - countless books... Terry Pratchett has his moments too.
IMO, the best book you can get your hands on that lays out the fundamental principles of becoming "awake" simply, succinctly and without any bothersome extra luggage is the Tao te Ching. I think it's helped greatly by the fact it dismisses the utility of contemplating the unknown on the very first page, then just tells it like it is - cause and effect.
Smoke
Done here.
No, I don't think that's possible -- not in the Bronze Age, and not now, and almost certainly not ever.
Everything we think is subject to revision -- everything. It must be, if we want to allow the possibility of greater understanding.
That doesn't mean we must change into something unrecognizable; it just means we can continue to learn.
Darkness
Psychoanalyst/Marxist
Phasmid said:
Many of us who join the Devil's party have this feeling. Luckily (or perhaps unluckily) most Atheists eventually lose the feeling of a dead phantom God. To these Atheists, the Christian God is akin to Zeus and Ba'al. For me, I believe the Christian God will always have a "special" place in my heart. I deal with the statue, by being a Luciferian. You have to find your own way.