I'm out of my box!

[Steve]

I wonder if Steve has any idea of just how much damage he does for his religion ?

Steve , your judgemental , narrow-minded views ARE the reason I , and I'm sure many others , refuse to even consider ourselves Christian . But then , God is most likely happy that he can take the day off , knowing that you have everything undercontrol .

If you regard standing up for ones religion as damage then so be it, I dont know if anyone actually notices this - but when i state my views on Christianity i back them up with the Bible, i know this dosnt carry much weight with some of you but it should to those who claim to be Christian, and usually not with just one verse etc but with a few. If i am to present a Christian perspective on the issue at hand what better way then the Bible which we base our faith on? The majority of my last post was scriptures that directly relate to the point i was trying to make. If you dont like those verse's then thats your choice.
I dont consider myself the Judge of anyone, but i belive their is one. I dont regard myself as better then others or more worthy of Salvation then anyone else however i do belive salvation is available to all and that its thanks to Gods grace and love which he proved to us at Calvary.
Should i present my beliefs in a fluffy, watered down version that really makes Christianity and Jesus' sacrifice meaningless when compared to other religions? No - and i never will.

If you refuse to accept Christianity and regard yourself saved thanks to what Jesus did for you all because it is too narrow-minded for you then go ahead, you wont be the only one.

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." Mathew 7:13-20

Damage? Hmmm, we must have opposing views of damage.

I guess that depends upon what one is trying to do Mister Emu . I kinda thought the idea was to help others . To show then the Light , as they say . One can be true to their religion , the beliefs , without being judgemental , can't they ?

How can one be true to their religion if they deny what it explicitly says? How can one help others and "show them the Light" if they are to scared of being labeled judgemental?
And yes the idea is to help others - If someone truly belived that their is a heaven and a hell and that God has made a way for all sinners to be accepted into heaven then shouldnt that person share the Gospel with them? Telling the person about Gods love and compassion for them such that he would be beaten and crucified for them so they can enter heaven dont have to stand befor God in their sins?

Now , I ask you all , how could I ever worship a god of Love and Mercy , if I have more Love and Mercy then that god ? Wouldn't that make him less then human ? That is not the God I know , for He has forgiven me long before I had forgiven myself .

Do you think God is Just, Holy and Righteous aswell as Loving, Gracious and Forgiving or just the last 3? God longs to forgive us but do you think he will if we reject the sacrifice and atonement he made on our behalf? If we stand befor him someday still in our sins do you think he should derail his own Justice and let us of the hook without punishing sin, Does your god even care about sin? We can enter Heaven with our sin paid for and therfore Gods Justice upheld only through Jesus.

Amen!
If they only knew how many people they drive away from the faith, maybe they would stop.... but then again..... I've noticed that people like this preach to others out of pride and arrogance... I really don't think the conversion of others is of any importance.

Scott rather then even address the points i raised you just ignore them and instead label me prideful and arrogant, how about as with a normal discussion/debate you actually reply to the points i raised, as i did yours. As i mentioned above, i used the bible because it should carry some weight with someone who regards themself a Christian.




Jesus never said his message would only bring peace, rather he made it clear that many people would hate the Gospel and be offended at its message. Just think about what the apostles went through, do you think their message was "worship whoever you want, do whatever you want, its all good - God loves you and will never Judge you" of course not, yet thats the impression i get from many professing Christians on this forum. The apostles were beaten, stoned etc because people didnt like what they were saying.

Consider this.. Do you belive it?

"Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven. But whoever disowns me before men, I will disown him before my Father in heaven.

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn
" 'a man against his father,
a daughter against her mother,
a daughter-in-law against her motherinlaw—
a man's enemies will be the members of his own household.' "Anyone who loves his father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves his son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and anyone who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Mathew 10:32-38







​

 

[Katzpur]

His own path? There is only ONE. The idea that we can as fallen sinful people can meet find our own way to a God is the very problem.



His own truth? what does that mean?
Is truth whatever we decide it is? If there is no real objective Truth then there is no truth at all. Do we create God or Does God Create us? If i decide that god is a rock in my backyard does that make it true, no - if you would say yes then God to you is nothing more then yours and somone elses imagination.

I've got to agree with you -- at least on one level. Abraham Lincoln once posed the question: How many legs does a dog have, if you call the tail a leg?

The answer is, of course, "Four. Calling the tail a leg doesn't make it a leg." Truth is not subjective. It's eternal, constant, and absolute. Unfortunately, none of us is in a position to be able to say definitively that what we believe to be true is what really is true. The best we can do is to recognize that we're all sincerely searching and hope that God will be merciful to those who die without getting all the facts right.

Kathryn

 

[greatcalgarian]

As a whole, when I take in everything I've learned about history, people, religions, cultures, "holy books", science, and life experiences....it's so hard to take the bible literally. It's so silly these days to believe it word for word literally, especially taking in everything mentioned above. Now, I do believe that we were created by something much higher than us, but I'm now tending toward this God not being found literally in the pages of the bible. Metaphorically found, sure, but it's so hard to believe otherwise! I know, so how do you interpret it objectively if you go the metaphor route? Mine would be just one of millions of interpretations. Just some random thoughts today.

If you find that scripture does not give you the answer, you might like to read on Deism:

Deism (n): Belief in God as revealed by nature and reason combined with a disbelief in scripture, prophets, superstition and church authority.

Deism is a free-thought philosophy, much like Agnosticism, Atheism or Pantheism in that it rejects the dogmas and superstitions of religion in favor of individual reason and empirical observation of the universe. Deism differs from these other free-thought philosophies in that it sees an order and architecture to the universe that indicates a Creator. The word "God" is used to describe this creator, not to be confused with the "Biblegod."

http://www.deism.org/frames.htm

 

[Draka]

Why is it that when I read Steve's posts the movie Dogma comes to mind? The beginning, where Loki is talking to the nun and basically saying that the Walrus and the Carpenter is comparable to religion? The part where he is talking about a paternal figure wagging his finger at us and saying "Do it, Do it or I'll ******* spank you!"

He talks about kind and loving and merciful...yet at the same time I see exactly what Loki was saying. The god he seems to revere is like an overly strict father who, yes, loves his children, but at what price? Scolds, comdemns, degrades, yells at them that they aren't "good enough" and "it's my way or the highway". A father like that messes with the minds of his children and the kids always feel like they can't do anything right and try so hard to please him that it becomes all they think about...either that or they rebel. Is it no wonder then that so many have, and are, turning away from that veiw of "God"?

 

[kreeden]

Steve , I do respect your Faith , and no , I would never expect for you to " water down " your religion . But there is more to Jesus' message then Law . In fact , Jesus went out of his way to show that . Do you honestly believe that Heaven is fenced ? That there is a fence around God's love ? If so , it saddens me .

As for hell for excample , scholars debate if there is just a place . Does one have to believe that there is a hell to be Christian ? If there is a hell , eternal punishment , then that doesn't sound very Just , Righteous , Loving , Gracious , or Forgiving . The punishment just does not fit the crime .

No , I am not the only one to reject Laws that limit God's Love . Not by a long shot . I recall a man who hung out with whores and tax-collecters that rejected the Laws that religion laid down in his day too .

I can't say what lays in your heart Steve . Perhaps you do think that you are being helpful telling people that they are going to burn in hell ? But I really think that is a very twisted form of Love . And a Father who loves me may have to reject me in time , for whatever reason , but his Love would ever turn to the Hate that would cause eternal suffering . Never .

 

[kreeden]

This may not make any sense at all , but be that as it may ....

I have no doubt in my heart that when it comes to my judgement , be it whatever it may be , that the problem will not be if the Judge accepts me , but wither if I accept the Judgement . Some may understand what I'm trying to say there , some may not . No matter . But as it will be my doing , I will have to accept the responibilities .

This discussion is going no where . Some things we will never agree upon . I wish that we could , but that would make for a very boring world . I'm now leaving this discussion , because it only saddens me , or makes me angery , and as I said , we well continue to disagree .

I would just like to say that it can be very hard to balance Life and what Life could be , should be , or what we wish Life was like . And although I may disagree with some of what has been said , I am sure that each and everyone of you are good people and do your best to be so . Yea , you too Steve .

Peace

 

[Scott1]

As i mentioned above, i used the bible because it should carry some weight with someone who regards themself a Christian.

The problem is Steve... you interpret the Bible one way... and I, another. Do whatever you feel is right in whatever way you think is right... I was just giving my opinion.

Consider this.. Do you belive it?

With all my heart... but again... we read it differently.

Peace to you.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

If you regard standing up for ones religion as damage then so be it, I dont know if anyone actually notices this - but when i state my views on Christianity i back them up with the Bible, i know this dosnt carry much weight with some of you but it should to those who claim to be Christian, and usually not with just one verse etc but with a few. If i am to present a Christian perspective on the issue at hand what better way then the Bible which we base our faith on? The majority of my last post was scriptures that directly relate to the point i was trying to make. If you dont like those verse's then thats your choice.

If you refuse to accept Christianity and regard yourself saved thanks to what Jesus did for you all because it is too narrow-minded for you then go ahead, you wont be the only one.

How can one be true to their religion if they deny what it explicitly says? How can one help others and "show them the Light" if they are to scared of being labeled judgemental?
And yes the idea is to help others - If someone truly belived that their is a heaven and a hell and that God has made a way for all sinners to be accepted into heaven then shouldnt that person share the Gospel with them? Telling the person about Gods love and compassion for them such that he would be beaten and crucified for them so they can enter heaven dont have to stand befor God in their sins?

Do you think God is Just, Holy and Righteous aswell as Loving, Gracious and Forgiving or just the last 3? God longs to forgive us but do you think he will if we reject the sacrifice and atonement he made on our behalf? If we stand befor him someday still in our sins do you think he should derail his own Justice and let us of the hook without punishing sin, Does your god even care about sin? We can enter Heaven with our sin paid for and therfore Gods Justice upheld only through Jesus.

Steve, the KKK hold the same conviction for their beliefs, and they back it up with the bible. Any one can take pieces of the bible and make it fit what they believe is the truth. But the truth is within the whole bible, not in it's parts. The truth also within all religions, not just Christianity. Other major religions believe in Jesus, and his teachings. And Jesus says that we are not to judge others. Of course God is just, and we will all reap what we sow, but it is not your place to point the finger and say, 'Dad's gonna be mad at you, and your in trouble.'

Your passion is admirable, and so is your loyalty. And there is nothing wrong with the message you are trying to send. But your presentation is offending others. Jesus wants us to be aware of how our actions affect others. We are to treat others as we would have them treat us.

Everyone of us, here on the threads, are here to achieve a greater enlightenment and understanding of the one who created us. We all seek wisdom, and are actively seeking to be closer to the source. For you to come through our sanctuary of learning like a bull in a china cabinet, is going to throw some of us into defense mode.

We are here to learn and grow. We know we are not perfect, we know we fall short of what God wants us to be. But we also know that our father (Abba) loves us anyway. He knows we are only human, and we are doing the best we can. He does not punish us. He does sit back and let us face the consequences of our own actions, that is how we learn. A person who sees God as an unhappy parent looking for a butt to spank, is someone who has not yet learned to take responsibility for their own actions. In the end it is not God who will send someone to hell, it is by their own choices and decisions that they go.