I'm slowing down in retirement, but can't stop my mind from doing what it's been doing for years.

[corynski]

And that about says it all right now. I'll see what catches my attention....... I'm amazed at what diversity of opinion I see...... makes me wonder why the humans can't agree on much.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Welcome to the forum.

 

[Tumah]

And that about says it all right now. I'll see what catches my attention....... I'm amazed at what diversity of opinion I see...... makes me wonder why the humans can't agree on much.

I would think that increasing diversity of opinion would lower the chances of agreement.

 

[columbus]

Hello Corynski!
Welcome to RF. Glad you joined us.
Tom

 

[DawudTalut]

Peace be on you. Welcome.

 

[corynski]

I would think that increasing diversity of opinion would lower the chances of agreement.

Yes, the more people, the more opinions and less agreement. My second thought was an oblique comment expressing an opinion that if there are in fact any creators, said creators with infinite powers would not likely create increasing dissent. Without any creators I would expect what I see around me, 'humans' that likely need to keep evolving.

 

[Robert.Evans]

Yes, the more people, the more opinions and less agreement. My second thought was an oblique comment expressing an opinion that if there are in fact any creators, said creators with infinite powers would not likely create increasing dissent. Without any creators I would expect what I see around me, 'humans' that likely need to keep evolving.

Hello. Welcome.

You are obviously entitled to your opinion on what you think the divine would or would not be doing. Be aware though that it might not be factually correct. things are a tad more complicated than first meets the eye. You think that it would be more stable if there were divinities, which first begs the question then, What is heaven for? Secondly, my opinion is that there would be disent, factions, and arguments. To me that is an evolving consciousness expressed here as this universe. It works well for me.

 

[Ralphg]

Hello. Welcome.

You are obviously entitled to your opinion on what you think the divine would or would not be doing. Be aware though that it might not be factually correct. things are a tad more complicated than first meets the eye. You think that it would be more stable if there were divinities, which first begs the question then, What is heaven for? Secondly, my opinion is that there would be disent, factions, and arguments. To me that is an evolving consciousness expressed here as this universe. It works well for me.

You have answered your own question. The evolving consciousness is expressed here but 'lives' (is home in) Heaven.

 

[corynski]

Hello. Welcome.

You are obviously entitled to your opinion on what you think the divine would or would not be doing. Be aware though that it might not be factually correct. things are a tad more complicated than first meets the eye. You think that it would be more stable if there were divinities, which first begs the question then, What is heaven for? Secondly, my opinion is that there would be disent, factions, and arguments. To me that is an evolving consciousness expressed here as this universe. It works well for me.

My background is anthropology with a scientific bent, which has in fact led me to believe there are no gods nor goddesses, nor satans nor hell nor limbo, but rather we simply don't know. I find the questions are more interesting than the answers, or alleged answers. If only there were some evidence for the supernatural. Something, anything.... that could advance the case for the supernatural, something that could be agreed upon. If the schools would teach anthropology to the young, they would know something other than one culture and one religion. As what's his name said, "There is no antidote for religion mixed with mother's milk",

And I wanted to see what the current state of the discussion is and how my thinking fits with that. The problem of course is simply, where's the evidence? Why won't Jesus show up? Are the Indians credible, having so many deities? There have been thousands of gods and goddesses, are they all 'made up'? I understand evolution both as theory and as fact, yielding evidence that can be corroborated or not by anyone. Another way to view religion is as a cultural artifact, an element of the culture that binds all the members of a group together thru shared belief. I doubt that the 'supernatural' aspect of a deity matters to many, whether it is fact or not. What is important that the group all believes the same things to enhance solidarity. If not, ostracism can be used to eliminate that person from the group.

That's a quick shot at what I'm experiencing. And thank you all for the warm welcome.......

 

[metis]

My background is anthropology with a scientific bent, which has in fact led me to believe there are no gods nor goddesses, nor satans nor hell nor limbo, but rather we simply don't know. I find the questions are more interesting than the answers, or alleged answers. If only there were some evidence for the supernatural. Something, anything.... that could advance the case for the supernatural, something that could be agreed upon. If the schools would teach anthropology to the young, they would know something other than one culture and one religion. As what's his name said, "There is no antidote for religion mixed with mother's milk",

And I wanted to see what the current state of the discussion is and how my thinking fits with that. The problem of course is simply, where's the evidence? Why won't Jesus show up? Are the Indians credible, having so many deities? There have been thousands of gods and goddesses, are they all 'made up'? I understand evolution both as theory and as fact, yielding evidence that can be corroborated or not by anyone. Another way to view religion is as a cultural artifact, an element of the culture that binds all the members of a group together thru shared belief. I doubt that the 'supernatural' aspect of a deity matters to many, whether it is fact or not. What is important that the group all believes the same things to enhance solidarity. If not, ostracism can be used to eliminate that person from the group.

That's a quick shot at what I'm experiencing. And thank you all for the warm welcome.......

Hey, nice to see a fellow anthropologist here.

I've posted a fair number of times that we tend not to be very conventional theists, if we're theists at all. Did you do much reading of Joseph Campbell's works, by chance? What's your area of specialization?

Anyhow, welcome here, and I'm truly glad to see ya.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

And that about says it all right now. I'll see what catches my attention....... I'm amazed at what diversity of opinion I see...... makes me wonder why the humans can't agree on much.

G'day and welcome to RF!

 

[Revoltingest]

Greetings!

Grab a plate & help yourself.....

 

[corynski]

Metis,
Thanks for the welcome. I'm seeing some interesting discussions here, and yes I do like J. Campbell. I started studying physical anthropology at OSU which had the comparative anatomy and histology and physiology courses that I enjoyed very much. Even a couple of months of gross anatomy. Then I switched to U.C. Berkeley where there was no physical, but only cultural anthropology. Had some good courses and graduated, one course was taught by Laura Nader, Ralph's sister. I guess what has concerned me most is the long, long period of evolution when humans were by and large confined to small hunting and gathering groups. I'm sure those thousands of years before the gods and goddesses appeared were extremely cruel and difficult. Thousands of years of the same routine, where group solidarity and cohesion were paramount. The family and the tribal unit had to survive, and religion and belief systems provided the means, a common understanding of life. Of course we have no written history, only artifacts which are slowly being found and documented. It staggers the mind to imagine what it was like, when even a small infection would make one vulnerable. How slowly tools evolved, and other techniques. What if you couldn't walk to make the fall migration, what would happen? There may have been no gods in those earliest days, but there was the beginning of nature worship, of river and lake spirits, weather spirits and spirits of the hunt. And later there were the spirits of deceased family members which came in visions, of strong leaders and ones keen enough to stay alive. The point is it was then that Divine help could have meant survival, but nothing has survived in the physical record. And the anthropological record does not mention the intervention of gods until just a few thousand years ago. So where were the Gods and Goddesses during those thousands and millions of years earlier?

 

[metis]

Metis,
Thanks for the welcome. I'm seeing some interesting discussions here, and yes I do like J. Campbell. I started studying physical anthropology at OSU which had the comparative anatomy and histology and physiology courses that I enjoyed very much. Even a couple of months of gross anatomy. Then I switched to U.C. Berkeley where there was no physical, but only cultural anthropology. Had some good courses and graduated, one course was taught by Laura Nader, Ralph's sister. I guess what has concerned me most is the long, long period of evolution when humans were by and large confined to small hunting and gathering groups. I'm sure those thousands of years before the gods and goddesses appeared were extremely cruel and difficult. Thousands of years of the same routine, where group solidarity and cohesion were paramount. The family and the tribal unit had to survive, and religion and belief systems provided the means, a common understanding of life. Of course we have no written history, only artifacts which are slowly being found and documented. It staggers the mind to imagine what it was like, when even a small infection would make one vulnerable. How slowly tools evolved, and other techniques. What if you couldn't walk to make the fall migration, what would happen? There may have been no gods in those earliest days, but there was the beginning of nature worship, of river and lake spirits, weather spirits and spirits of the hunt. And later there were the spirits of deceased family members which came in visions, of strong leaders and ones keen enough to stay alive. The point is it was then that Divine help could have meant survival, but nothing has survived in the physical record. And the anthropological record does not mention the intervention of gods until just a few thousand years ago. So where were the Gods and Goddesses during those thousands and millions of years earlier?

Very interesting, and if I have time tomorrow I'd like to respond with some of my experiences.

BTW, it's better if you quote the one you are responding to here so it shows up in their "alert" box to let them know you've responded. Try it so I can be reminded tomorrow to get back to ya.

 

[Skwim]

And I wanted to see what the current state of the discussion is and how my thinking fits with that. The problem of course is simply, where's the evidence? Why won't Jesus show up? Are the Indians credible, having so many deities? There have been thousands of gods and goddesses, are they all 'made up'?

If there is a god I'm certain he smiles, perhaps even chuckles, every time someone down here on earth remolds him into some new configuration to suit their needs.

Another way to view religion is as a cultural artifact, an element of the culture that binds all the members of a group together thru shared belief. I doubt that the 'supernatural' aspect of a deity matters to many, whether it is fact or not.

As long as it's accepted as such, even if it's littered with discrepancies, contradictions, and even silliness. The need to believe often operates like a great blindfold.

What is important that the group all believes the same things to enhance solidarity. If not, ostracism can be used to eliminate that person from the group.

Which isn't all that bad where other options are around. In a totalitarian society, not so much.

That's a quick shot at what I'm experiencing. And thank you all for the warm welcome.......

And welcome aboard.

 

[corynski]

Very interesting, and if I have time tomorrow I'd like to respond with some of my experiences.

BTW, it's better if you quote the one you are responding to here so it shows up in their "alert" box to let them know you've responded. Try it so I can be reminded tomorrow to get back to ya.

Thanks, let's see if I've got it right.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Welcome aboard

Wait... are you calling us human?

 

[metis]

Thanks, let's see if I've got it right.

You got it, and it did show up in my "alert".

 

[corynski]

Welcome aboard

Wait... are you calling us human?

Hello Smart Guy

I think we're almost evolved, like 'near human' maybe. Thanks for the welcome.

 

[corynski]

You got it, and it did show up in my "alert".

Hello Metis
Did I get it right? It's getting tougher as I get older, and I can forget the first step in any routine, say like just checking my mail. And let me clarify what I said about anthropology, as I did not continue in the profession. At graduation I had a choice of working in LA, chasing down people with VD for the Public Health Service, or to go to Sicily as part of a team promoting Florida style orange juice, so I went to Sicily. And later traveled around the middle east, never to return to anthropology. And I now consider it a mistake, but I knew I couldn't do graduate school at the time.

I see you're getting right up there in age too, where did anthropology take you?

charley