Imagine.....................

[jeffrey]

Another verse is 'Imagine no religion, it's easy if you try..'

 

[Ardent Listener]

I think his song speaks of a Zionistic society not a Capitalistic or Communistic society.

Zionism- A cooperative voluntary effort to form a utopia. All things are shared.
Capitalism- A competitive effort which leads to the dividing of classes.
Communism- A forced but cooperative effort in which there are no classes.

These are my own interpretaions. I did not look this up.

John lennon's song speaks of a Zionistic society, in a paradisical place.

Zionism is similar to Communism only in Zionistic societies people are not forced to obey. Freedom of choice is championed. Free agency is not a part of Communism. Communism is a forced Zionistic society

And no forced religion too?

 

[James the Persian]

Do you know James, it had never even occurred to me. That goes to show how short sighted and dense I am.

What if you removed "

Imagine​

Imagine there's no heaven,​

It's easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky," ?

As far as I can see, the only atheist content ? living for today ? - Buddhism, and a jolly good way to live, for the moment, savouring life to the full.​

As for your rejection of Communism, I can understand why you should feel as you do, and I am sorry if you personally (or any of your family have suffered).......but I would add that, in it's ideal., there is nothing wrong with the concept of 'no Countries, no poverty, all working together, for the same goal' - and here, belive it or not, speaks a Capitalist.


​

If it weren't for the anti-religious statements, of course there'd be nothing wrong with Imagine. I never suffered under communism (well, slightly, I guess, as I was never able to get to know some of my relatives behind the Iron Curtain) but that's not why I reject anarch-communism. I do that because I've been there and have the T-shirt and, frankly, I see it as a misguided ideology that can do nothing but harm despite its good intentions. Economically speaking, I still think I'm more socialist than capitalist but my political views are now more centrist than anything.

James

 

[James the Persian]

WOW! Did I manage to imply all that in two short sentences? :biglaugh:

Frankly, yes. Your statement implied that I hadn't thought outside the box before and that this was due to my blindly following religious dogma. Laugh all you want but the comment was both ignorant and ridiculous and I certainly hold to what I posted in reply. Assuming that those who hold to religious beliefs have never thought outside the confines of their dogma speaks more about your attitude to believers than the attitudes of those believers.

James

 

[retrorich]

Frankly, yes. Your statement implied that I hadn't thought outside the box before and that this was due to my blindly following religious dogma. Laugh all you want but the comment was both ignorant and ridiculous and I certainly hold to what I posted in reply. Assuming that those who hold to religious beliefs have never thought outside the confines of their dogma speaks more about your attitude to believers than the attitudes of those believers.

James

Actually, I think it was more a matter of you inferring than Iimplying. In any case, I love you, too, Brother. PEACE

 

[FFH]

I can now see (if you ignore the explicitly anti-religious statements in 'Imagine') how you interpret it the way you do. I still have a hard time understanding how you can ignore those statements, but as I said, what you get out of any art is to a large degree personal.

If you imagine no religion, you imagine people. People are more important than religion. John was only trying to place an importance on people, not religion.

If you imagine no possessions you imagine people. People are more important than things. John was only trying to place an importance on people, not possessions.

If you imagine there is no heaven, then you imagine the here and now, and you start living for today and not for tomorrow. I sometimes think too much about heaven, and never live for the day I am in right now, and I miss out on a lot of things.

 

[FFH]

And no forced religion too?

Good question. In a Zionistic society would there be one set of beliefs that were forced upon it's believers. I think the answer would be that people would voluntarily follow a certain set of beliefs which governed the society they were living in. No one would be forced to live there. Would everyone think the same concerning God? I guess we wouldn't know unless we tried to build a Zionistic society. Build Zion based on sharing and cooperation. These are two biggies. Hard things to do in a world like ours. It can only happen if everyone is willing to do it. A massive volunteer effort.