Immortality

[Noaidi]

The Earth could sustain many folds what it does now. It is the effectiveness of our use of resources that is pathetic. The question is not whether the Earth can sustain us but, rather: Can humans manage such huge population? Consider the job we are doing with just 6.6 billion.

Then I think it's more important to be allocating funds and thought to the equitable distribution of those resources rather than playing about with trying to reach immortality.
Consider the job we are doing with almost 7 billion? I think we're doing a s*** job.

 

[Noaidi]

The idea that science will give immorality is equivalent to the ideas: that humans have an immortal soul, making a mark in history is a form of immorality or by passing on your genetic code you somehow live on.

All of it is just the human mind desperately grasping at a life it sees slipping between it fingers. They are just coping mechanisms.

Agreed.

 

[Jeremiah]

Then why not live life more? And surely, if death were a part of life, almost every creature on Earth wouldn't be hard-wired to avoid it?


Do computer programs, an entirely mathematical construct, end up in Hell?


While that's true, it is somewhat of a self-regulating issue: If we get it wrong, people die, relieving the problem. The issue becomes moot if/when we can upload brains.


As far as I'm concerned, so is Heaven. And I find the idea of biological messing-around far more plausible than a mystical place that has avoided all detection thus far.

Well, computer science has been in existence for under a century, and has already produced things which would have been considered impossible even 20 years ago.


The computer is only a few decades old. How many micro-processors are in the room you're sitting in?


Depends what you mean by "realistic." After all, traveling hundreds of light-years isn't a problem if you're a computer program.


How so? I'm talking about modifying biology so that aging simply doesn't happen, and there has been serious research towards that goal.

"As far as I'm concerned, so is Heaven. And I find the idea of biological messing-around far more plausible than a mystical place that has avoided all detection thus far."

That is an irrelevant point, Heaven has nothing to do with it.

"Well, computer science has been in existence for under a century, and has already produced things which would have been considered impossible even 20 years ago."

Well not really, the path of computers was accurately predicted. We are not really seeing anything "considered impossible". But you are taking about a computer that can house, in its entirety, the human soul. We don't even know how intelligence works or emotions, much less how to store , program and process it. Beside how big would the computer have to be? A skyscraper? Given the current level of computer science, as well as cognitive science, such things are a wild fantasy.

"Depends what you mean by "realistic." After all, traveling hundreds of light-years isn't a problem if you're a computer program. "

Nothing but pure and wild fantasy. You might want to grab a scientific text book sometime and consider reading it.

"How so? I'm talking about modifying biology so that aging simply doesn't happen, and there has been serious research towards that goal."

Yes, there is serious research going on and so far they have squat. Their best suggestion is maybe adding a few year, based off some test with lab rats.

If you are seriously interest in life extension, then you should consider the CR diet. The best way to extended your life is good health; that is the only realistic way to do it.

 

[Abulafia]

Do computer programs, an entirely mathematical construct, end up in Hell?

Since the concept of Hell is reliant on souls, and machinery a product of man, whereas the soul, a product of God, you would got to heaven or hell, once your corporeal manifestation dies.

 

[Abulafia]

If that is a case, then we don't have such technology, nor are we close to having it. We can't move at the speeds needed to make colonization of distance planet realistic. We don't even know if such speeds are possible.

The next step is a permanently manned station on the Moon, and even that could be several decades away; then still even longer for colonization of the Moon. Then after the Moon it would be on to Mars.

It is possible that humankind will never escape this solar-system, the distances just might prove to be too great.

And there lies my point, about as ridiculous as the Fountain of Youth.:areyoucra

 

[Silver]

......

So....How do you view the world, knowing that your time in it is arbitrarily long?

And then, just before you die, scientists from the very distant future (1 Billion AD) travel back through time (time travel) to your deathbed, and transfer your consciousness (mind uploading) to an afterlife realm that they've created (highly advanced virtual reality).

:sleep:

 

[PolyHedral]

That is an irrelevant point, Heaven has nothing to do with it.

I am merely pointing that all of the alternatives are far less plausible.

Well not really, the path of computers was accurately predicted. We are not really seeing anything "considered impossible". But you are taking about a computer that can house, in its entirety, the human soul. We don't even know how intelligence works or emotions, much less how to store , program and process it. Beside how big would the computer have to be? A skyscraper? Given the current level of computer science, as well as cognitive science, such things are a wild fantasy.

Go to 1970, and tell them that computers would be so popular that we'd have them in our toothbrushes, (let's not get started on mobile phones and the internet) and you'll probably be laughed at.

And probably less than 1450 cm3. After all, brain cells are far larger, and far more spread out, than transistors. The brain was never optimized for space.

Nothing but pure and wild fantasy. You might want to grab a scientific text book sometime and consider reading it.

I have. My scenario is perfectly achievable, though, obviously, the timescale is uncertain.

Yes, there is serious research going on and so far they have squat. Their best suggestion is maybe adding a few year, based off some test with lab rats.

Their best suggestion, according to that article, is +20% life expectancy. Would anyone in the room pass up living an extra 15 years?

And this seems to be one of the projects that look like squat until they actually invent the thing, since the intermediate stages aren't commercially useful.

If you are seriously interest in life extension, then you should consider the CR diet. The best way to extended your life is good health; that is the only realistic way to do it.

Of course, but surely that's merely a stopgap?

Since the concept of Hell is reliant on souls, and machinery a product of man, whereas the soul, a product of God, you would got to heaven or hell, once your corporeal manifestation dies.

And so the next question becomes: Do computer programs have souls? And if they don't, then how does a soul impact a person? (Since, as far as we can tell, consciousness is just a series of algorithms.)

And then, just before you die, scientists from the very distant future (1 Billion AD) travel back through time (time travel) to your deathbed, and transfer your consciousness (mind uploading) to an afterlife realm that they've created (highly advanced virtual reality).

Scientists? In 1 billion AD? We're doing something very, very wrong if we don't have a theory of everything by then. (Incidentally, I'm not sure what you're point is. Life-extending technology takes, AFAWCT, a few hundred years to develop, or maybe a thousand, let alone a million.)

 

[Abulafia]

And so the next question becomes: Do computer programs have souls? And if they don't, then how does a soul impact a person? (Since, as far as we can tell, consciousness is just a series of algorithms.

Fine, yet apparently God doesn't take such secular of views...

If you wish to consider it from an atheistic perspective, where all life is a series of complex matter, reacting and enacting stimuli (one I sort of favor), that's fine....but from the creators perspective (hypothetical or otherwise) souls are the component that transcend the aether.

 

[logician]

As it turns out, we are very good at biotechnology. We have created genomes from scratch. We are researching how to regenerate body parts. We are looking into the biological cause of death.

And that last one is important. If some of the predictions are correct, a few decades from now, medicine will have advanced to the point that aging will be abolished. Nobody ever grows old again. Nobody ever dies except by injury, disease or suicide. (And most disease will probably be eradicated by the time this happens.)

Some of the more... interesting predictions say that computer science and neurology will also play a part in extending lifespans: There is nothing fundamentally preventing us from copying and running a human mind in a computer. Software does not decay and can be copied endlessly.

So... how does God treat beings who can outlive the Earth? Beings who avoid His punishment in Hell entirely? How do you view the world, knowing that your time in it is arbitrarily long?

Interesting post, it would make traditional religion totally obsolete.

 

[Druswid]

Forever is a long time. In fact, no one alive can truly comprehend forever. But besides that, who wants to live forever? Why would you want to be locked into an unending life that you can only end by killing yourself, or getting sick? I figure we live out the span of our lives to the best of our abilities, and when the time comes, we try to go with dignity. And whither then? I cannot say.

 

[Jeremiah]

I am merely pointing that all of the alternatives are far less plausible.

Go to 1970, and tell them that computers would be so popular that we'd have them in our toothbrushes, (let's not get started on mobile phones and the internet) and you'll probably be laughed at.

And probably less than 1450 cm3. After all, brain cells are far larger, and far more spread out, than transistors. The brain was never optimized for space.


I have. My scenario is perfectly achievable, though, obviously, the timescale is uncertain.

Their best suggestion, according to that article, is +20% life expectancy. Would anyone in the room pass up living an extra 15 years?

And this seems to be one of the projects that look like squat until they actually invent the thing, since the intermediate stages aren't commercially useful.

Of course, but surely that's merely a stopgap?

And so the next question becomes: Do computer programs have souls? And if they don't, then how does a soul impact a person? (Since, as far as we can tell, consciousness is just a series of algorithms.)

Scientists? In 1 billion AD? We're doing something very, very wrong if we don't have a theory of everything by then. (Incidentally, I'm not sure what you're point is. Life-extending technology takes, AFAWCT, a few hundred years to develop, or maybe a thousand, let alone a million.)

"I am merely pointing that all of the alternatives are far less plausible."

And I am merely pointing out that you pointing it out is pointless.


"Go to 1970, and tell them that computers would be so popular that we'd have them in our toothbrushes, (let's not get started on mobile phones and the internet) and you'll probably be laughed at."

They thought we'd be exploring the stars by now. They thought all the things you do. Why? Because religious or not, people love to indulge in fantasy.


"And probably less than 1450 cm3. After all, brain cells are far larger, and far more spread out, than transistors. The brain was never optimized for space."

Not even going to waste my time.

"I have. My scenario is perfectly achievable, though, obviously, the timescale is uncertain. "

What scenario? You didn't give a scenario. Let's hear this scenario: How do you plan to travel space as a computer program?

Btw, science fiction does not count as a science text book.

 

[diosangpastol]

If you would given a chance to be an immortal(does not die on whatever you do). Would you accept it

 

[Jacksnyte]

If you would given a chance to be an immortal(does not die on whatever you do). Would you accept it

Yes! Then I would immediately sign up for a space exploration crew! Oh, and I would hope there was also a way to double intelligence as well!

 

[PolyHedral]

If you would given a chance to be an immortal(does not die on whatever you do). Would you accept it

Such a thing is not possible. All die when the hardware that supports them stops.

They thought we'd be exploring the stars by now. They thought all the things you do. Why? Because religious or not, people love to indulge in fantasy.

The following statement would get you laughed if you said it at any point before 1995 or so: The highest-grossing film ever, as of 2010, is 99% CGI.

They'd thought we'd be exploring the solar system by now, and we could, if it was economic. It isn't, but that isn't to say fantastic-seeming technology isn't available. Remember, there are people alive today older than all forms of electronics. The wiring used in modern electronics is smaller than visible light. Put another way, it's only a few hundred atoms across.

How do you plan to travel space as a computer program?

Easily? Attach a computer and launch?

 

[Jacksnyte]

Here's something relevant to the direction this conversation seems to be heading:

"... He(Timothy Leary) adopted the acronym "SMI²LE" as a succinct summary of his pre-transhumanist agenda: SM (Space Migration) + I² (intelligence increase) + LE (Life extension). Leary credited L5 co-founder Keith Henson with helping develop his interest in space migration.
Leary's colonization plan varied greatly throughout the years. Because he believed that he would soon migrate into space, Leary was opposed to the ecology movement. He dismissed many of Earth's problems and labeled the entire field of ecology "a seductive dinosaur science." Leary stated that only the "larval," intellectually and philosophically backward humans, would choose to remain in "the fouled nest." According to his initial plan to leave the planet, 5,000 of Earth's most virile and intelligent individuals would be launched on a vessel (Starseed 1) equipped with luxurious amenities. This idea was inspired by the plotline of Paul Kantner's concept album Blows Against The Empire, which in turn was derived from Robert A. Heinlein's Lazarus Long series. In the 1980s, he came to embrace NASA scientist Gerard O'Neill's more realistic and egalitarian plans to construct giant Eden-like High Orbital Mini-Earths (documented in the Robert Anton Wilson lecture H.O.M.E.s on LaGrange) using existing technology and raw materials from the Moon, orbital rock and obsolete satellites."
Timothy Leary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Penumbra]

I don't think that time line is accurate at all. Biological immorality and the end of disease are almost certainly not going to happen in the next few decades.

I definitely wouldn't want to be immortal anyway. Not aging would be kind of nice, but I wouldn't want to live any longer than the current human lifespan.

I don't see why this is such a dream for some people.

 

[diosangpastol]

As it turns out, we are very good at biotechnology. We have created genomes from scratch. We are researching how to regenerate body parts. We are looking into the biological cause of death.

And that last one is important. If some of the predictions are correct, a few decades from now, medicine will have advanced to the point that aging will be abolished. Nobody ever grows old again. Nobody ever dies except by injury, disease or suicide. (And most disease will probably be eradicated by the time this happens.)

Some of the more... interesting predictions say that computer science and neurology will also play a part in extending lifespans: There is nothing fundamentally preventing us from copying and running a human mind in a computer. Software does not decay and can be copied endlessly.

So... how does God treat beings who can outlive the Earth? Beings who avoid His punishment in Hell entirely? How do you view the world, knowing that your time in it is arbitrarily long?

to be an "immortal" is very much impossible as of this time and i think will always be impossible. no scientific material/s which were man-made can outperform GOD's power.

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

I think immortality would seriously upset the balance of nature, especially if the elixir of immortality was tested on rats first and a few got away.

 

[That one dude...]

I absolutely abhor the thought of living forever. Why would I want to do that? I am not afraid of dying. I want to live life fully, and then when it is time to go, I quite look forward to it, and not because I believe in a soul or afterlife because I don't. Death is sacramental to me. It is a part of life. I am meant to die. It's in my psyche. To live for thousands of years cannot be healthy for an animal who is meant to die, an animal who, at the end of life, will instinctively mull over its life, share it with others, contemplate, and if this is done correctly and with love and support, die in peace. I can't imagine what living forever would do to a mind. At what point one would one begin to forget nearly everything? At one point would the brain be overloaded?

Agreed entirely. Every time I hear about immortality, I scoff and say no thank you. At a certain point, hopefully not unnaturally soon, I would like to die.