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Impeachment Amendment

Nicholas

Bodhicitta
Only amending our Constitution will have a lasting effect. Whether thru the convention of States method or the regular difficult process, these words should be added after the line about the House having 'sole power' to impeach:

And no Person shall be impeached without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Save one word, this is borrowed from the Senate section regarding their 'sole power' to try an impeachment case.

Even the Dems in the States should support this, if they are concerned about the Republicans taking over the House and using the same partisan voting block to impeach a Dem President.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Trump has already been impeached, and that's within the jurisdiction of the House, not the Senate.

BTW, if Trump is supposedly innocent, then why is he and his fellow Pubs so against having witnesses and documents going public. Heck, if I'm innocent, I definitely want witnesses to testify and documents admitted as evidence that'll show I'm innocent.

OTOH, if I'm guilty and unapologetic (a.k.a. "low morals"), then I would do what Trump and the Senate Pubs are doing.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Trump has already been impeached, and that's within the jurisdiction of the House, not the Senate.

BTW, if Trump is supposedly innocent, then why is he and his fellow Pubs so against having witnesses and documents going public. Heck, if I'm innocent, I definitely want witnesses to testify and documents admitted as evidence that'll show I'm innocent.

OTOH, if I'm guilty and unapologetic (a.k.a. "low morals"), then I would do what Trump and the Senate Pubs are doing.
Evidence first, witnesses last. That's the way I'd like to see it.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Trump has already been impeached, and that's within the jurisdiction of the House, not the Senate.

BTW, if Trump is supposedly innocent, then why is he and his fellow Pubs so against having witnesses and documents going public. Heck, if I'm innocent, I definitely want witnesses to testify and documents admitted as evidence that'll show I'm innocent.

OTOH, if I'm guilty and unapologetic (a.k.a. "low morals"), then I would do what Trump and the Senate Pubs are doing.

You would, would you?

Try reading the fifth amendment sometime.

Oh, I just saw Pelosi doing a 'high five' with some CNN or MSNBC (I forget which) anchor, celebrating this whole thing, with Pelosi saying 'He's impeached, and he'll be impeached FOREVER." As if that were some sort of huge accomplishment; as if impeachment were a guilty verdict.

It's not. Johnson was impeached....does anybody remember what for? He wasn't kicked out of office, though, so what he was accused of doesn't matter.

Clinton was impeached, for felonies he admitted committing and for which he was punished by other courts. You know, fined heavily and disbarred. He did not, however lose his job. The accusation for which he was tried went away.

Trump has been impeached. Not for any felony, but for 'abuse of power,' which means...what, precisely? I haven't figured that one out myself. ANYway, 'impeach' means 'accused.' "Indicted."

Now he's going to be tried in the Senate, and considering the partisanship that has driven this whole thing, he will almost certainly be found 'not guilty.' the accusation will go away except in the heads of those who don't like him anyway.

For anybody with two thoughts to rub together, that impeachment will, equally certainly, ensure his re-election. Even those who don't like him or his polices are likely to vote FOR him out of sheer outrage at the total misuse of impeachment powers.

I'll probably vote for him again, and again it will be more a vote against the Democrat than for him, unless the Dems come up with someone with a little more brain power and ethics than they have at the moment.
 
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Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Only amending our Constitution will have a lasting effect. Whether thru the convention of States method or the regular difficult process, these words should be added after the line about the House having 'sole power' to impeach:

And no Person shall be impeached without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Save one word, this is borrowed from the Senate section regarding their 'sole power' to try an impeachment case.

Even the Dems in the States should support this, if they are concerned about the Republicans taking over the House and using the same partisan voting block to impeach a Dem President.
First off this was not an unfair process. Though Presidents resisted turning over evidence in the past no one has done so to the extent that Trump did. Second an impeachment is very similar to a Grand Jury. The standards are lower for a Grand Jury, whose duty is only to see if there is sufficient evidence for a trial than when the actual trial is held. The House should be have a lower bar for their process. Trump himself said that he wanted a fair trial. Now it only looks as if he was lying. Again.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
You would, would you?

Try reading the fifth amendment sometime.

Oh, I just saw Pelosi doing a 'high five' with some CNN or MSNBC (I forget which) anchor, celebrating this whole thing, with Pelosi saying 'He's impeached, and he'll be impeached FOREVER." As if that were some sort of huge accomplishment; as if impeachment were a guilty verdict.
Pelosi and the Congress did what they have sworn an oath to do, on the people's behalf, when a president is accused on abusing the power of the presidency, as Trump was, and as the evidence clearly showed he had done. She had every right to be proud of having fulfilled her responsibility to the office that she holds, and to the people who put her there.
Johnson was impeached....does anybody remember what for? He wasn't kicked out of office, though, so what he was accused of doesn't matter.
It was a procedural infraction, and he was not found guilty by the Senate. And it did matter, because as a result of his impeachment, the powers of the presidency were diminished for many years afterward.
Clinton was impeached, for felonies he admitted committing and for which he was punished by other courts. You know, fined heavily and disbarred. He did not, however lose his job. The accusation for which he was tried went away.
Clinton lied under oath within the context of an investigation that should never have taken place. So although he technically did commit a crime, he did so in the face of political entrapment. His mistake was that he agreed to be questioned under oath regarding personal conduct that had no bearing on his fulfilling the office of president. He should simply have refuse to comply, rather than comply, and then lie.
Trump has been impeached. Not for any felony, but for 'abuse of power,' which means...what, precisely? I haven't figured that one out myself. ANYway, 'impeach' means 'accused.' "Indicted."
If you haven't figured out Trump's abuse of power, yet, then you are an idiot. Because the evidence is overwhelming that he threatened to withhold U.S. aid to a foreign country in an effort to extort damning evidence from them to use against his political opponents at home. This is clearly an abuse of the power of the presidency for personal political gain, and it was so obvious to everyone involved that many of the participants in the U.S. government agencies involved immediately turned to the justice department to expose the attempt. And even the republicans that support Trump are not denying his abuse of power, or that it was wrong. They are simply claiming that it wasn't a bad enough abuse of power to warrant his impeachment. (Although we all know that if it had been a democratic president accused of doing the same thing, their howl for the maximum punishment would have been heard all the way to Pluto.)
Now he's going to be tried in the Senate, and considering the partisanship that has driven this whole thing, he will almost certainly be found 'not guilty.' the accusation will go away except in the heads of those who don't like him anyway.
The democrats did what they had to do according to the laws and the oath of office that they took. This was not "partisan", it was mandated. Trump clearly did abuse the power of his office and they HAD TO investigate, and they had to impeach based on the overwhelming evidence. So when the Senate ignores this same evidence, and refuses to censure Trump in any way for what was clearly an abuse of the power of his office, THEY will be doing so out of partisanship. And THEY will be the ones ignoring their responsibilities of their oath of office, and to the people who put them there.
For anybody with two thoughts to rub together, that impeachment will, equally certainly, ensure his re-election. Even those who don't like him or his polices are likely to vote FOR him out of sheer outrage at the total misuse of impeachment powers.
This is patent gibberish, as it's highly unlikely that Trump's clear and obvious abuse of power will somehow translate into more people voting for him. If anything, what will happen is that some of those republicans in the Senate will pay the price at the polls for ignoring their responsibilities to their oath of office, and to the people who put them there, in their ignoring Trump's abuse of power.
I'll probably vote for him again, and again it will be more a vote against the Democrat than for him, unless the Dems come up with someone with a little more brain power and ethics than they have at the moment.
You were going to vote for him again no matter what he did, or what any republicans have done because of him. Because you're the one that's not thinking, but is just acting out of willful ignorance, and malice. You clearly don't care about Trump's lack of ethics, so why should you care about the democratic candidates being so ethical?
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Trump has already been impeached, and that's within the jurisdiction of the House, not the Senate.

BTW, if Trump is supposedly innocent, then why is he and his fellow Pubs so against having witnesses and documents going public. Heck, if I'm innocent, I definitely want witnesses to testify and documents admitted as evidence that'll show I'm innocent.

OTOH, if I'm guilty and unapologetic (a.k.a. "low morals"), then I would do what Trump and the Senate Pubs are doing.
You're making it about Trump, but the OP was more general.
Consider that Clinton might've benefited from a higher bar
to impeachment. If we assume that government operates
best without distraction by impeachment & trial, then this
would make those rarer, & benefit the country. And the
impeachment option is still preserved for when really needed.
 
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Bob the Unbeliever

Well-Known Member
Re: The Impeachment.

Mitch-the-Traitor and his Putin-owned buddies, have openly said their minds are already made up, regardless of guilt or no.

Try this next time you are up for Jury Duty:

Tell the judge, that you personally know the Defendant.
Tell the judge, that you will ignore any and all evidence, but will vote to acquit no matter what.
Tell the judge, that you intend to keep in touch with the Defendant, all during the trial, too, keeping the Defendant up to date on everything.
Tell the judge, that you happily took money from the Defendant, for exactly these things.


See how long you can stay out of jail.

BUT THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT MITCH-THE-TRAITOR HAS JUST SAID AND DONE.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The democrats did what they had to do according to the laws and the oath of office that they took. This was not "partisan", it was mandated. Trump clearly did abuse the power of his office and they HAD TO investigate, and they had to impeach based on the overwhelming evidence.
Exactly, and if they didn't take action that in and of itself would have been patently immoral under both constitutional and also basic Judeo-Christian morals. As Gandhi said "To cooperate with evil is evil", and all too much of what Trump has said and done falls into the "blatantly immoral" category.

And I do believe that history will now be on the Dems side by standing up against such despotism. I can live with Trump being elected again (heaven forbid!) if we do the right thing for both country and morals. As the saying goes: "A hero dies once, but a coward dies a thousand deaths". Gandhi called it "disinterested action", namely to do that which is right regardless as to the consequences. Granted, I don't always do that, but at least it's a direction that I know to at least try and go in.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Only amending our Constitution will have a lasting effect. Whether thru the convention of States method or the regular difficult process, these words should be added after the line about the House having 'sole power' to impeach:

And no Person shall be impeached without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.

Save one word, this is borrowed from the Senate section regarding their 'sole power' to try an impeachment case.

Even the Dems in the States should support this, if they are concerned about the Republicans taking over the House and using the same partisan voting block to impeach a Dem President.

Probably should be more than a simple majority. At least it would save us from some political bickering. The House could still pass a resolution against the actions of a president.
 

Nicholas

Bodhicitta
Probably should be more than a simple majority. At least it would save us from some political bickering. The House could still pass a resolution against the actions of a president.

Correct, but a purely partisan vote, as happened against Trump would be much less likely.

By the way, several posters are missing the point. My OP was about amending our Constitution to reduce the likelihood of future tit for tat partisan-based impeachments.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Correct, but a purely partisan vote, as happened against Trump would be much less likely.

By the way, several posters are missing the point. My OP was about amending our Constitution to reduce the likelihood of future tit for tat partisan-based impeachments.

What do you mean by that? You do realize that it was the Republicans that were partisan, much more so than the Democrats. The evidence against Trump is pretty damning, yet not one Republican member of the House voted for impeachment. Also you do realize that the Democrats used Republican rules for the Houses procedure., don't you? They used the same rules as used against Clinton.
 

dianaiad

Well-Known Member
Pelosi and the Congress did what they have sworn an oath to do, on the people's behalf, when a president is accused on abusing the power of the presidency, as Trump was, and as the evidence clearly showed he had done. She had every right to be proud of having fulfilled her responsibility to the office that she holds, and to the people who put her there.
It was a procedural infraction, and he was not found guilty by the Senate. And it did matter, because as a result of his impeachment, the powers of the presidency were diminished for many years afterward.
Clinton lied under oath within the context of an investigation that should never have taken place. So although he technically did commit a crime, he did so in the face of political entrapment. His mistake was that he agreed to be questioned under oath regarding personal conduct that had no bearing on his fulfilling the office of president. He should simply have refuse to comply, rather than comply, and then lie.
If you haven't figured out Trump's abuse of power, yet, then you are an idiot. Because the evidence is overwhelming that he threatened to withhold U.S. aid to a foreign country in an effort to extort damning evidence from them to use against his political opponents at home. This is clearly an abuse of the power of the presidency for personal political gain, and it was so obvious to everyone involved that many of the participants in the U.S. government agencies involved immediately turned to the justice department to expose the attempt. And even the republicans that support Trump are not denying his abuse of power, or that it was wrong. They are simply claiming that it wasn't a bad enough abuse of power to warrant his impeachment. (Although we all know that if it had been a democratic president accused of doing the same thing, their howl for the maximum punishment would have been heard all the way to Pluto.)
The democrats did what they had to do according to the laws and the oath of office that they took. This was not "partisan", it was mandated. Trump clearly did abuse the power of his office and they HAD TO investigate, and they had to impeach based on the overwhelming evidence. So when the Senate ignores this same evidence, and refuses to censure Trump in any way for what was clearly an abuse of the power of his office, THEY will be doing so out of partisanship. And THEY will be the ones ignoring their responsibilities of their oath of office, and to the people who put them there.
This is patent gibberish, as it's highly unlikely that Trump's clear and obvious abuse of power will somehow translate into more people voting for him. If anything, what will happen is that some of those republicans in the Senate will pay the price at the polls for ignoring their responsibilities to their oath of office, and to the people who put them there, in their ignoring Trump's abuse of power.
You were going to vote for him again no matter what he did, or what any republicans have done because of him. Because you're the one that's not thinking, but is just acting out of willful ignorance, and malice. You clearly don't care about Trump's lack of ethics, so why should you care about the democratic candidates being so ethical?

Let's see. you have called me an idiot, accused me of not thinking, and insulted me personally...and why? Because I don't agree with you politically. I haven't done the same to you. No wonder the country is so divided, when your half of the conversation is that rude.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Let's see. you have called me an idiot, accused me of not thinking, and insulted me personally...and why? Because I don't agree with you politically. I haven't done the same to you. No wonder the country is so divided, when your half of the conversation is that rude.
This is what RF has come to.
It'll get worse as the election approaches.
I find it useful to limit conversation with some.
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
First off this was not an unfair process. Though Presidents resisted turning over evidence in the past no one has done so to the extent that Trump did. Second an impeachment is very similar to a Grand Jury. The standards are lower for a Grand Jury, whose duty is only to see if there is sufficient evidence for a trial than when the actual trial is held. The House should be have a lower bar for their process. Trump himself said that he wanted a fair trial. Now it only looks as if he was lying. Again.
Was Trump allowed in for a look-see as to the evidence against them?

Was Trump's attorney allowed in any of the precedings?
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
This is what RF has come to.
It'll get worse as the election approaches.
I find it useful to limit conversation with some.
I have a feeling this will be perpetual.

No matter who gets elected, who gets in office, you're going to have one half the country being esstatic and the other half absolutely miserable for the long-term foreseeable future.

I'm getting to be like a lot of people who acknowledge that this country is already on its way out as the great experiment fails in the modern era.
There is no doubt we're no longer republic anymore. We will either be a radical socialist nation or a full-blown oligarchy or worse, a combination of the two into some bizarre monstrous hybrid.

I think America has lost from the inside as we implode to destruction of a once-great free and independent Nation. We need to all face the fact that the common citizen no longer has representation and there's absolutely nothing the common person can do about it.
 
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