IN CHRISTMAS, whom we celebrate..., to Santa Calus, Harry Potter, or Jesus?

[Porque77]

It's about Jesus to me. Nothing to do with paganism. Merry Christmas and God bless.

Your words seem nice, but you forget what is happening in the world, as in the days of Christmas each year there is less reminiscent of Jesus Christ.

The world every year, at Christmas time, presents more tales of Santa Claus, magic, and fantasy and fairy tales. This is another way to end the memory of Jesus Christ.

 

[Porque77]

It's not propaganda brother, or persecution....it is people remembering, learning, discussing history. Why is it ok for Church appropriation of pagan heritage, traditions, holy places, etc. but it's not OK to honor the older traditions or newer ones during the winter season? Change and choice is only OK if it's Christian?

Memories of Christmas has nothing to do with pagan traditions. The Christmas reminds Jesus Christ and the Gospel, and the Gospel does not need of pagan festivals to remember Christmas.

The Gospel destroyed the pagan holidays. The Gospel is something very different. What happens is that the Magic worshipers and heathenism want to destroy the Christianity.

Once the Second Coming happens you can have full domination of holiday traditions and free-thought.

That's the law that the pagan worshipers impose to the world, but Christians do not worship pagan magicians, because Christians worship Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

 

[Porque77]

Besides, just because something is derived from a Pagan custom doesn't necessarily mean that it is in itself still a promoter of Paganism. What something is now is more important than what it was in the past.

Christmas is to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, and not come from any pagan custom, but from the Gospel.

Those who say that Christmas is a pagan custom, they are the pagans.

They are the ones who want to re-impose paganism.

Today, on Christmas day, the world celebrates many things of magic and paganism but do not celebrate Jesus Christ. And it is so because the world has been corrupted.

 

[Sees]

Memories of Christmas has nothing to do with pagan traditions. The Christmas reminds Jesus Christ and the Gospel, and the Gospel does not need of pagan festivals to remember Christmas.

The Gospel destroyed the pagan holidays. The Gospel is something very different. What happens is that the Magic worshipers and heathenism want to destroy the Christianity.



That's the law that the pagan worshipers impose to the world, but Christians do not worship pagan magicians, because Christians worship Jesus Christ and his Gospel.

If you knew one-tenth as much about paganism/heathenism as most pagans and heathens do about Jesus and the Gospel...you wouldn't say that.

Holidays dealing with the cyclic nature of the earth are as pagan as it gets brother. It doesn't go away. You just have a bunch of people not knowing what they are doing or why because their ancestors traditions were raped away.

My little heathen babies learn all about Jesus and we all love Christmas, we just don't leave out all the other goodies. There should not be any Christian holidays to begin with, none of this worldly stuff.

 

[Alceste]

For my own part, I like celebrating the cycle of the changing seasons. The time for planting, the longest day, the time for harvest, and the longest night. Christmas just happens to have shoehorned itself into a slot where most of humanity for most of history would be partying their ***** off anyway. Winter Solstice. The longest night. The return of the sun. That has always qualified for virtually all humans everywhere as a Really Big Deal since the dawn of time.

I'm not so much into Santas and trees, but I'm absolutely mad about lights of all kinds (and I think they're symbolically significant on "the longest night". I approach giving with a potlach mentality - it's an exercise in "wealth" redistribution.

Granted, the Christians have come along and bolloxed up the whole thing by relocating their take on the Solstice festival by a couple of days for some inexplicable reason, then being so powerful and violent for centuries that most people have forgotten the big midwinter shindig is actually supposed to be around Dec 20th or 21st, but hey, there's nothing wrong with showing up fashionably late, right?

My family does Christmas from several days before Christmas until just after the New Year, with much drinking and feasting. IMO, that indicates they have a basic human impulse to do it up right, even if they have forgotten the point of it all.

 

[Alceste]

Christmas is to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, and not come from any pagan custom, but from the Gospel.

Those who say that Christmas is a pagan custom, they are the pagans.

They are the ones who want to re-impose paganism.

Today, on Christmas day, the world celebrates many things of magic and paganism but do not celebrate Jesus Christ. And it is so because the world has been corrupted.

I'm not a pagan. I'm a philosophical Taoist. I celebrate cosmic events like the solstice, equinox, lunar cycles etc. because they actually matter, right here in the real world. My own body reminds me monthly of the significance and mystery of the moon. The changing tides, the migrating birds, the bees, the trees and flowers - all living things on earth dance in harmony with the changing seasons, which ebb and flow in time to the whirl and wobble of heavenly bodies. On the longest night, I simply remind myself to join in all the fun.

I don't give a fiddler's fart (although I have plenty to spare, being a fiddler) what you do on the longest night or what you think it means. By all means, do your thing. I do think it's extraordinarily rude and presumptuous of you to complain that what I get up to and what it means to me is inauthentic or corrupt simply because I don't happen to be a member of your church.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Your words seem nice, but you forget what is happening in the world, as in the days of Christmas each year there is less reminiscent of Jesus Christ.

The world every year, at Christmas time, presents more tales of Santa Claus, magic, and fantasy and fairy tales. This is another way to end the memory of Jesus Christ.

No, I'm aware of the secularization of Christmas. I'm more concerned over corporations losing their minds trying to amass more profit during that time than I am over stories of Santa and the North Pole.

 

[Parsimony]

Christmas fantasy stories will not make people forget about Jesus. Religion is one of the most tenacious things that exists. It would take something massive, earth-shatteringly massive, to make the millions of believers around the world forget about Jesus.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Christmas is to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, and not come from any pagan custom, but from the Gospel.

Those who say that Christmas is a pagan custom, they are the pagans.

They are the ones who want to re-impose paganism.

Today, on Christmas day, the world celebrates many things of magic and paganism but do not celebrate Jesus Christ. And it is so because the world has been corrupted.

Not pagan. Just informed.

 

[Alceste]

No, I'm aware of the secularization of Christmas. I'm more concerned over corporations losing their minds trying to amass more profit during that time than I am over stories of Santa and the North Pole.

Totally agree, actually. The commercialization of seasonal holidays irritates me too. The fact that the instant the plastic pumpkins and skeletons disappear from the shelves, plastic Santas and reindeer start to appear, and after they've gone, plastic egg baskets and stuffed bunnies, and on and on. Thank all the Gods and none that we no longer celebrate a summer solstice holiday - it gives us a break from the pointless marketing cycle that rides the back of the changing seasons like an ever-bloating, inaccessible leech.

When I can, I try to make gifts myself, or at least acquire them from a local artisan I can talk to face to face, and our "Christmas lights" are up all year round, mostly inside, to illuminate our ongoing Friday Night Dance Party.

 

[Porque77]

Christmas fantasy stories will not make people forget about Jesus.

I disagree with you

IN DAYS OF CHRISTMAS and "KINGS"? Magicians, magic ... or Jesus Christ?

In the Christmas is no longer celebrated Jesus Christ

Some celebrate the "Santa Claus" or "Santa Claus" in the days of the birth of Jesus Christ, that no one remembers Jesus Christ.

And in the days of the Wise Men of the East who came to worship the Child, are celebrated the "Magicians kings" without any reference to the Birth of Jesus Christ.

All those who hate or do not love the beautiful reminder of Jesus Christ and His Birth, change the meaning of the holidays and Christmas day so that new generations lose all love for Jesus Christ and forget what really represent the Christmas .
Does the Birth of Jesus Christ ... or the arrival of "Santa Claus"?

In recent years, the day that has always been celebrated the birth of Jesus Christ, is prevailing and widely spreading the tale of Santa Claus, a tale in which fantasy personabound, such as gnomes, delphi and all kinds of magic.

In this tale is ignored Jesus Christ and his birth and many children in the world are being excited with the invention of that in the days of Christmas, "Santa Claus" delivers toys to children all over the world. With this, make children forget the baby Jesus born in Bethlehem, God made Man , whose birth has always been for true Christians one of the biggest events ever known in human history .

The tale of " Santa Claus " has been an instrument that has been used to fight against the memory of the birth of Jesus and the love that we owe him. These days are also used by many to aggrandize the magicians and magic in general. The Gospel story , has been supplanted by tales of magic and fantasy .
The Wise Men from Eastern... or "Magi Kings"?

In Christmas is celebrated on the day of the "Magi Kings" (the Wise Men from Eastern).

There is no evidence that these men were kings or magi who practiced the magic, because in these peoples the greek word "magoi" meant wise.

The old "magi" came from the Medes and Persian peoples. This name came to the Greeks as magoi (magoi or inhabitants from Media). It is believed that they were a priesthood of the Medes. These magi of Persia and Media were not equal to those we know today as practitioners of magic. Were simply wise, either because they practiced people's religion or because they were wise in various arts.

These Wise Men were believed to be observers of the stars, and from Media or Persia, they saw the star that led them to Bethlehem announcing the birth of Jesus Christ.

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.

When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him" (Matthew 2:1-11)

 

[Sees]

I disagree with you

IN DAYS OF CHRISTMAS and "KINGS"? Magicians, magic ... or Jesus Christ?

In the Christmas is no longer celebrated Jesus Christ

Some celebrate the "Santa Claus" or "Santa Claus" in the days of the birth of Jesus Christ, that no one remembers Jesus Christ.

And in the days of the Wise Men of the East who came to worship the Child, are celebrated the "Magicians kings" without any reference to the Birth of Jesus Christ.

All those who hate or do not love the beautiful reminder of Jesus Christ and His Birth, change the meaning of the holidays and Christmas day so that new generations lose all love for Jesus Christ and forget what really represent the Christmas .
Does the Birth of Jesus Christ ... or the arrival of "Santa Claus"?

In recent years, the day that has always been celebrated the birth of Jesus Christ, is prevailing and widely spreading the tale of Santa Claus, a tale in which fantasy personabound, such as gnomes, delphi and all kinds of magic.

In this tale is ignored Jesus Christ and his birth and many children in the world are being excited with the invention of that in the days of Christmas, "Santa Claus" delivers toys to children all over the world. With this, make children forget the baby Jesus born in Bethlehem, God made Man , whose birth has always been for true Christians one of the biggest events ever known in human history .

The tale of " Santa Claus " has been an instrument that has been used to fight against the memory of the birth of Jesus and the love that we owe him. These days are also used by many to aggrandize the magicians and magic in general. The Gospel story , has been supplanted by tales of magic and fantasy .
The Wise Men from Eastern... or "Magi Kings"?

In Christmas is celebrated on the day of the "Magi Kings" (the Wise Men from Eastern).

There is no evidence that these men were kings or magi who practiced the magic, because in these peoples the greek word "magoi" meant wise.

The old "magi" came from the Medes and Persian peoples. This name came to the Greeks as magoi (magoi or inhabitants from Media). It is believed that they were a priesthood of the Medes. These magi of Persia and Media were not equal to those we know today as practitioners of magic. Were simply wise, either because they practiced people's religion or because they were wise in various arts.

These Wise Men were believed to be observers of the stars, and from Media or Persia, they saw the star that led them to Bethlehem announcing the birth of Jesus Christ.

"Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.

Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared. And he sent them to Bethlehem, and said, Go and search diligently for the young child; and when ye have found him, bring me word again, that I may come and worship him also.

When they saw the star, they rejoiced with exceeding great joy. And when they were come into the house, they saw the young child with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him" (Matthew 2:1-11)

You still haven't showed how Christmas traditions make Christians forget about Jesus or story of his birth. Better yet why non-Christians should care?

Was Christmas more religiously precious for the masses 50 years ago or 100 years ago?

Should these cultural traditions which are older than Jesus be throw away based off of superstitious fear that they will harm or overthrow the largest religion in history???

 

[Parsimony]

Porque77, you do realize that Christians think about Christ on days other than Christmas, right? I think about Him every day. That's how it should be for all Christians. To say that people will forget about Christ's existence because of Santa Claus stories is a slippery slope argument of the most profound proportions.

 

[Awkward Fingers]

Then the Christians should have stolen a holiday with more boring tradition and celebration.
If you decide to steal a celebration, and put your holiday on top of it, and people still prefer the old holiday, you have no one to blame but yourself.

If you want to see more celebration of Christ in Christmas. Then celebrate Christ more, and stop looking at what other people are doing.

 

[Porque77]

You still haven't showed how Christmas traditions make Christians forget about Jesus or story of his birth. Better yet why non-Christians should care?

Answer:

For me it is demonstrated, and for Christians who feel what is happening is also shown. And the scripture says, "Prove all things, do not despise prophesying." And the prophecies tell us that the antichrist will change festivities and laws in the end times. You must exit the temple a little more and see what happens in the street.

To say that people will forget about Christ's existence because of Santa Claus stories is a slippery slope argument .

Answer:

Would you tell me if the tale of "Santa Claus" and the tale of Harry Potter help to remember Jesus Christ and his Gospel the Christmas day? ...

If you want to see more celebration of Christ in Christmas. Then celebrate Christ more, and stop looking at what other people are doing.

Answer:

If Jesus Christ, the apostles and early Christians huvieran done what you say, today would not be the Gospel known.

The prophecies are being fulfilled. The antichrist is winning to the false Christians who don't defend the Gospel.

 

[Porque77]

To the people of Israel, since old time, were forbidden to practice magic:

"There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD" (Deuteronomy" 18:10-12)

To the people of Israel, before Jesus Christ, was forbidden magic. And in the days of the apostles was also forbidden magic:

"And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver" (Acts 19:18-19)

As we have seen , the magic was had as bad for the people of Israel, and after, for the early Christians. Then, the writing dosen't tells us that were kings or magi, magic practitioners, those wise men from East.

The name "magi" at that time meant "wise" or "priests of the temples of Media and Persia".

In these days of Christmas, we see that on Christmas day, Little is remembered Jesus Christ. And in the days of kings little is remembered that the wise men from the East came to worship Jesus Christ. Wizards of the earth (the practitioners of magic) focus all attention on the "magi kings" but indicate little or nothing, that those Wise Men came to worship Jesus Christ was born in Bethlehem.

The war against Jesus Christ and his Gospel began centuries ago, and in recent centuries, the sign of Jesus Christ and his Gospel is going to disappear. Instead, impose to the world, the characters "Santa Claus ", Superman ( "god" of other planets), Harry Potter , and any character tales of magic and fantasy.

Christians who love Jesus Christ , we must remember Christmas like the Gospel says. At Christmas we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, and in the days of "kings" celebrate when the wise men of the East, guided by the star , came to Bethlehem to worship Jesus Christ , who, like Child, was born in Bethlehem.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

A basic study of the history of Christmas shows a complex mixing of both Christian and non-Christian elements.

Since the values associated with Christmas are pretty universal (even in the secular realm), and include things like family togetherness, friendship, giving, gratitude, good will, etc., should it matter which symbols are used to "deck the halls," be they Christian, pagan, or secular?

Christ is only one of the powerful spiritual symbols of mankind, and the values of Christmas (ultimately celebrating life in the midst of death) can be clothed in more than one.

 

[Parsimony]

Answer:
Answer:

Would you tell me if the tale of "Santa Claus" and the tale of Harry Potter help to remember Jesus Christ and his Gospel the Christmas day? ...

They don't. They won't make us forget, either. As long as the Bible exists, we will have the story of Christ. Santa Claus stories aren't going to make the Bible disappear.

What does Harry Potter have to do with Christmas anyway?

 

[Awkward Fingers]

This whole conversation seems oddly in line, in my mind, to how the whole "religious icons on public property" thing is going...

"hey, nice nativity scene! Hope you don't mind if I toss up a Santa to celebrate too!"

"Hey guys! Oh, decorations! I'll just toss up a 'season of reason' banner, since we're putting things up"

"NO NO NO! Only the nativity scene! The rest must go. Only what I want can be promoted!!"

...one quick court case later, all displays are banned.

Seriously, the biggest threat to Christians these days, seems to be fanatic Christians who don't differentiate religious rights from personal rights.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

This whole conversation seems oddly in line, in my mind, to how the whole "religious icons on public property" thing is going...

"hey, nice nativity scene! Hope you don't mind if I toss up a Santa to celebrate too!"

"Hey guys! Oh, decorations! I'll just toss up a 'season of reason' banner, since we're putting things up"

"NO NO NO! Only the nativity scene! The rest must go. Only what I want can be promoted!!"

...one quick court case later, all displays are banned.

Seriously, the biggest threat to Christians these days, seems to be fanatic Christians who don't differentiate religious rights from personal rights.

Fanatic Christians have commonly been the biggest threat to other Christians. Just like fanatic Muslims are a threat to other Muslims, and fanatic atheists...are...erm...annoying.