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In God's Image?
- Thread starter Tiberius
- Start date
Super Universe
Defender of God
Tiberius said:
Sure I can support it but what athiest would accept any of it?
We must first find out what God's image is! He manifests,images ,mirror's himself through His creation
From the world to the heavens,stars,and all living things, another term for that is His Glory,(hebrew) kabod, splendor,riches honor,reverence, meaning in greek, brilliance,radiance,splendor,illumination,beauty.
The bible says ,
Psa 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handywork.
It is his nature ,character,attributes that resemble his image.
From scripture we see God's image, love,mercy,compassion,grace,patience,longsuffering,forgiving,goodness
eternal existence,power,authority,dominion,truth,holiness,righteousness
These were in us in our oringinal created state before sin tainted the human spirit and our nature.
God is spirit, and the moment we were created God breathed into man's nostrils that life giving spirit that enabled us to truly bare His image.
Apparently Eve comprehended what God had said and therefore did know right from wrong:
Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
That wrong choice ,tainted the image they were created in and thus down to us we have been tainted,born sinners and separated from God in sin,spiritually dead and physically destined to die as a consequece of that rebellion
That's the problem no human can ever become like God in spirit unless He is born again spiritually by recieving Christ as Savior therefore return to that image God created us in.
Not in our present state,we must be spiritually born again John 3 and that life giving spirit will return when we repent ,which means "to return to the high place" confess that JESUS OUR SACRIFICE paid for our sin debt.
1Jo 4:13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
[/QUOTE]
There is a clear answer but it is only found through a life that is transformed through the power of the spirit by receiving Christ as Lord and Savior
That is what Jesus came to do to reconcile man to God
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, [I say], whether [they be] things in earth, or things in heaven
But I must conclude that the natural man will not comprehend the things of God nor the truth of who God is or what He purposes to do in the hearts of man,or for that matter in the whole world,the spiritual things only become a point to argue and debate basing understanding on mere human intellect and logicand reasoning.
The contention then just continues as it always has.
But when a person comes to faith and trust in God through Jesus Christ the spiritual eyes will be opened
1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Scuba Pete
Le plongeur avec attitude...
Tiberius said:
Eternal? Both are.
Freedom of choice? Enjoyed by both.
Capable of Love/Hate? Again, both are.
Innocent of sin? God still is and we once were. Here is the part of the Spirit that we need to have reborn.
John 3:3 In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."
4 "How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!" 5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." NIV
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
In order to understand this it is nescassary to understand the structure of the sentence it is in.
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Gen 1:27 KJV
Notice the semi-colon. This means that what comes after it futher clarifies what comes before it ergo the "image of God.' God created man as a duality, male and female. This is a reflection of the plural nature of God (notice the plural "Elohim"). used in the Hebrew)
Also notice the pronouns that are used. Before the semi colon is the use of the singular pronoun "him." After the semi-colon (which futher clarifies what came before) is the use of the plural pronoun "them."
As a futher reflection and correlation of this to the plural nature of God see Gen. 3:22, "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us...." Notice the us of the plural pronoun "us."
you can also go to John 3:11, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness." This is Jesus speaking to Nicodemus. Again, notice the use of the plural pronouns when Jesus referes back to the testimony of God in the Old Testament.
"So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Gen 1:27 KJV
Notice the semi-colon. This means that what comes after it futher clarifies what comes before it ergo the "image of God.' God created man as a duality, male and female. This is a reflection of the plural nature of God (notice the plural "Elohim"). used in the Hebrew)
Also notice the pronouns that are used. Before the semi colon is the use of the singular pronoun "him." After the semi-colon (which futher clarifies what came before) is the use of the plural pronoun "them."
As a futher reflection and correlation of this to the plural nature of God see Gen. 3:22, "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us...." Notice the us of the plural pronoun "us."
you can also go to John 3:11, "Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness." This is Jesus speaking to Nicodemus. Again, notice the use of the plural pronouns when Jesus referes back to the testimony of God in the Old Testament.
What nonsense!Tiberius said:
Actually, Genesis 1:26-27 is rather remarkable, especially when viewed as a circa 2600 year old human document. Man and woman coequally reflect the projection of our ultimate ideal - a preamble to the later mandate from Leviticus 19: "You shall be holy!"
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
What part of it is nonsense? You think it's nonsense that God could appear as an elephant?
And I'm not appreciating your dismissive attitude. i find it quite rude, and I'm going to ask you to be more polite. If you can't do that, I'll report your posts as rude and I simply won't discuss things with you anymore.
And I'm not appreciating your dismissive attitude. i find it quite rude, and I'm going to ask you to be more polite. If you can't do that, I'll report your posts as rude and I simply won't discuss things with you anymore.
Yet you apparently thrive on throwing pebbles at the Torah, much like some juvenile amusing himself by killing ants. :slap:Tiberius said:
Mr. Hair
Renegade Cavalcade
In all honesty, I don't know. I can't even begin to describe or define the divine (Hey, that rhymes!), as any description would be fractured and subjective, and would inherently place limiting concepts on that which is inconceivable. I also don't know what the author was trying to communicate or their intentions, nor how closely this translation matches their original words.Tiberius said:
But I think that one possible interpretation of this passage can be that we, as well as everything else, are manifestations of that divine, which is both the mystery and the manifestations. It is not only 'out there' (Wherever that is), but is within us and indeed is us, and yet is not. Both path and gate, both root and branch, endless upon endless. Harmony and movement, stillness and silence. (Sorry, I have a tendency to babble...)
One aim of this passage could be to attempt to express this idea in a way that could be understood given the context of that time and culture, and the inadequacy of both language and our understanding of the divine.
Certainly that is the general direction I would be inclined to interpret this, but that would only be my fallible opinion 'filling in the gaps', as it were. As I said before, I honestly don't know.
(Incidentally, I don't know if this topic was for Christians only. If so I'll edit out this post or something...)
PS: I'd also agree with MV that there's probably an element of ego-stroking involved here. Who doesn't like being compared to a God? ^_^
Opethian
Active Member
I can't support this claim, because there are so many factors involved and humans are such complex machines that is practically impossible (at this time) to predict such things. Yet theoretically it seems completely possible, but no, I can't prove this.
That's where the environment comes in. If you know every bit of information of my environment at one point, and every bit of information of my body structure (including memories, trauma, life experiences), then you could theoretically predict what I do next. If you then also have every bit of information of my future environment, you could predict everything that I will do in my life.
Because the agonising and thinking is the process that produces the ultimate only possible option. What you describe is simply the same decision with different information (and thus input) available, in this case not believing in free will. Obviously different input can lead to different output.
Sorry for getting off-topic again, if you want to discuss this further Tiberius, you could come to my "Free will" topic in the General Religious Debates.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Tiberius said:
Personally, I feel that, since God is love, the image of God that we reflect most clearly and truly is the image of Love, that is, our capacity to share love. That love, borne out between people, is the way in which we are created in God's image.
It also means that we were created by God out of love, and through love.
Mind you that particular attribute or image of love intended to be passed on to mankind has been perverted by sin and can not be fully manifested in and through us as perfect love until we are reconciled to God through Jesus Christ.
1Jo 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things [that are] in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
Tiberius said:
In truth-loving and caring nature.
Tiberius said:
I don't see how such a question could pop at all... if you have studied Bible instead of musing on a single verse...
Tiberius said:
Come on, Tiberius, please read the Bible - it contains more than one verse...
Tiberius said:
I can't imagine how using X- instead of Christ- can be justified within reason
Tiberius said:
Well now, Tiberius... I could expect much more options from a all-the-way atheist.
Tiberius said:
Yes. I have answered.
But, I have a question, if you don't mind: how in the world can it be that so hardened an atheist seriously asks in what way God (Who he doesn't believe in!) did this or that?
I wonder whether there is any answer that all atheists agree on...
Tiberius
Well-Known Member
Mykola said:
And let's not forget that not too long afterwards, God found Humans so wicked he killed them all in the flood. Loving and caring indeed.
But my point is true, yes? Adam and Eve weren't wise enough to tell good from evil?
Allow me to quote from Atheist web - Common Arguments.
Atheist Web said:
The original page where this appears is here.
how in the world can it be that so hardened an atheist seriously asks in what way God (Who he doesn't believe in!) did this or that?
You're contadicting yourself. in the first passage, you suggest that an atheist such as myself should be able to give more thought to it, but in the second, you ask why i am giving it any thought at all.
To answer your final question - "I wonder whether there is any answer that all atheists agree on..." - the answer is simple. Our answer is, "God didn't do it at all, because he doesn't exist." Remember, by definition, an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in God. it's like me asking you how Frodo Baggins went to the loo out in the wilds of Middle earth. The answer is, "Frodo doesn't exist, so he never needed to go to the toilet."
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
Hi!
I would say that very simply, "in God's image" means that we have free will!
Peace,
Bruce
I would say that very simply, "in God's image" means that we have free will!
Peace,
Bruce
BruceDLimber
Well-Known Member
I beg your pardon?
I was speaking about human beings.
(And in comparison, animals rank as more or less sophisticated automatons....)
Peace,
Bruce
I was speaking about human beings.
(And in comparison, animals rank as more or less sophisticated automatons....)
Peace,
Bruce