In India, coronavirus fans religious hatred

[Aupmanyav]

Read more here: In India, coronavirus fans religious hatred

It is late here today. You will get a detailed reply tomorrow. Not that we are bothered by these anti-India, anti-Hindu and false reports.

 

[Vinayaka]

I agree with the latter statement and @Vinayaka and @TravisJC among others may also agree

View attachment 38890

Lord Shiva is regarded by many as the Ultimate Supreme Divine in which all things reside
Others see him as the destructive complement to the creator and sustainer roles (personally would not surprise me if Lord Shiva was the cause of the big crunch preceding the big bang)
He is regarded as the foremost exponent of the art of war having instructed masters such as Parasuram
He is also regarded - to my understanding - as the god with the most tender heart who listens readily to his devotees

I shall put in a small story here - I saw a show where there was a conversation between Lord Shiva and another extremely powerful figure (Hanuman)
Hanuman asked Lord Shiva why evil exists - and Lord Shiva with a smile on his face said "Yeh vidhi ka vidhaan hai - is mein hastakshep nahin hota" - roughly translated to - "this is the way of the world - I do not interfere"

Take it for what you will - my understanding is that god does not interfere - this is the Leela - the play of the Universe

FWIW

I've never seen him as the destroyer. Dissolution is a far better word. Rock erosion by wind or water is a better analogy for that process. in my view. I don't really worship Him in any anthropomorphic form and see deeper than that ... always. But yes, that view is common in the north of India, and in Puranic Hinduism.

 

[Jane Boswell]

I agree with the latter statement and @Vinayaka and @TravisJC among others may also agree

View attachment 38890

Lord Shiva is regarded by many as the Ultimate Supreme Divine in which all things reside
Others see him as the destructive complement to the creator and sustainer roles (personally would not surprise me if Lord Shiva was the cause of the big crunch preceding the big bang)
He is regarded as the foremost exponent of the art of war having instructed masters such as Parasuram
He is also regarded - to my understanding - as the god with the most tender heart who listens readily to his devotees

I shall put in a small story here - I saw a show where there was a conversation between Lord Shiva and another extremely powerful figure (Hanuman)
Hanuman asked Lord Shiva why evil exists - and Lord Shiva with a smile on his face said "Yeh vidhi ka vidhaan hai - is mein hastakshep nahin hota" - roughly translated to - "this is the way of the world - I do not interfere"

Take it for what you will - my understanding is that god does not interfere - this is the Leela - the play of the Universe

FWIW

Oh but "god" does interfere, with frequent orgasms of intervention.
It's because, wouldn't you as supreme big bang creator eventually, after millions of eternities, become bored with being just a cold observer?

 

[ManSinha]

It's because, wouldn't you as supreme big bang creator eventually, after millions of eternities, become bored with being just a cold observer?

Far be it for a mere unlettered mortal as myself to comment on something so profound - unlike others I neither ascribe human quality as boredom or love or jealousy to god - nor do I purport to know what s/he thinks or not

 

[Jane Boswell]

Many unlettered famous ones have defied that. Purporting comes in handy for charlatans and hypocrites who operate on every strata. Which human qualities then would you consider redeemable?

 

[ManSinha]

Many unlettered famous ones have defied that. Purporting comes in handy for charlatans and hypocrites who operate on every strata. Which human qualities then would you consider redeemable?

What exactly are you asking me? Human qualities in humans? or human qualities attributed to god?

 

[Jane Boswell]

Why can't they be one and the same? Afterall we created god.
If you find no divinity springing from you yourself, don't expect a puppet to supercede you.

 

[ManSinha]

Why can't they be one and the same? Afterall we created god.
If you find no divinity springing from you yourself, don't expect a puppet to supercede you.

You are talking about two different things - I believe that all of us have the spark of the divine in them - but we do not know the extent of the divine as Lord Krishna says

Gita 7:12

ye chaiva sāttvikā bhāvā rājasās tāmasāśh cha ye
matta eveti tān viddhi na tvahaṁ teṣhu te mayi

The three states of material existence—goodness, passion, and ignorance—are manifested by my energy. They are in me, but I am beyond them.

According to the Vedas

naiṣhā tarkeṇa matirāpaneyā (Kaṭhopaniṣhad 1.2.9)[v26]
“God is beyond the scope of our intellectual logic.”

rām atarkya buddhi mana bānī, mata hamāra asa sunahi sayānī (Ramayan)[v28]
“God cannot be analyzed by arguments or reached by words, and intellect.”

Anyway we are off on a tangent derailing the OP - happy to discuss the metaphysical with you - whatever little knowledge I have - start a new thread if you would like - this is my last post in reply to you - probably should not have picked up the bit about Lord Shiva but c'est la vie......

OTOH - if you think gods are puppets created by the minds of men - the RigVeda would be in agreement with you

kó addhā́ veda ká ihá prá vocat
kúta ā́jātā kúta iyáṃ vísr̥ṣṭiḥ
arvā́g devā́ asyá visárjanena
áthā kó veda yáta ābabhū́va

But, after all, who knows, and who can say
Whence it all came, and how creation happened?
the gods themselves are later than creation,
so who knows truly whence it has arisen?

I am merely trying to provide a platform for some of my beliefs - I am in no way proclaiming that they are truth or asking anyone to accept them unconditionally.

Peace!!

 

[Jane Boswell]

You are talking about two different things - I believe that all of us have the spark of the divine in them - but we do not know the extent of the divine as Lord Krishna says

Gita 7:12

ye chaiva sāttvikā bhāvā rājasās tāmasāśh cha ye
matta eveti tān viddhi na tvahaṁ teṣhu te mayi

The three states of material existence—goodness, passion, and ignorance—are manifested by my energy. They are in me, but I am beyond them.

According to the Vedas

naiṣhā tarkeṇa matirāpaneyā (Kaṭhopaniṣhad 1.2.9)[v26]
“God is beyond the scope of our intellectual logic.”

rām atarkya buddhi mana bānī, mata hamāra asa sunahi sayānī (Ramayan)[v28]
“God cannot be analyzed by arguments or reached by words, and intellect.”

View attachment 38899

Anyway we are off on a tangent derailing the OP - happy to discuss the metaphysical with you - whatever little knowledge I have - start a new thread if you would like - this is my last post in reply to you - probably should not have picked up the bit about Lord Shiva but c'est la vie......

OTOH - if you think gods are puppets created by the minds of men - the RigVeda would be in agreement with you

kó addhā́ veda ká ihá prá vocat
kúta ā́jātā kúta iyáṃ vísr̥ṣṭiḥ
arvā́g devā́ asyá visárjanena
áthā kó veda yáta ābabhū́va

But, after all, who knows, and who can say
Whence it all came, and how creation happened?
the gods themselves are later than creation,
so who knows truly whence it has arisen?

I am merely trying to provide a platform for some of my beliefs - I am in no way proclaiming that they are truth or asking anyone to accept them unconditionally.

Peace!!

You seem like you'd be keen on the Upanishads, an energy I can detect but find lax info about.
If Shiva has anything to do with it, count me in.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Read more here: In India, coronavirus fans religious hatred

A few links. Kindly let me know if this is enough or should I post more material?

Jamaat members have proved themselves to be demonic and absolute Jahils, not fit to live in civil society. And whom they have harmed the most? Only those who follow their own religion, i.e., the Muslims. By spreading the infection among them, by asking Muslims to congregate for prayers in this time of Corona virus, by inciting them to act against law agencies. Those booked for unlawful activities now will spend years in court fighting their cases or in jail, if convicted. The problem is not confined to India. Pakistan and Bangladesh too has suffered from Jamaat in equal measure. Jamaat is another iteration of Al-Quaeda or IS.

Tablighi Jamaat and Coronavirus - Google Search
Jamaat members attack medical teams - Google Search
Jamaat members defecate - Google Search
Jamaat members spitting - Google Search
Jamaat members hide in mosques - Google Search
Tablighi Jamaat and Pakistan - Google Search
Tablighi Jamaat and Bangladesh - Google Search

 

[Aupmanyav]

Why can't they be one and the same? Afterall we created god.
If you find no divinity springing from you yourself, don't expect a puppet to supercede you.

Well, I am exactly what you are looking for. An atheist 'advaitist' (believer in non-duality) Hindu who does not believe in any kind of divinity, either in ourselves or in the deities we created. What exists is just one entity, which is not God, and constitutes all things in the universe without any exception. The entity, we call it Brahman, is something like electricity, magnetism, gravity, light, heat or any other physical force. It does not care about what is seen/perceived to be happening in the world. It has no concern with merit or sin, does not require you to worship it, does not send prophets / sons / messengers / manifestations / mahdis to the world, does not send one to heaven or hell after one dies. Since it is eternal and form-independent, it goes without saying that what it constitutes also is eternal and form-independent.

 

[atanu]

This is a perspective from a Muslim author.

Indian Muslims should address the elephant in the room on COVID 19

 

[Father Heathen]

It wouldn't surprise me if some religious radicals, who view Jihad and the coronavirus as tools from God, would actually infect people with the coronavirus.

...So I'm not sure if the Indians are wrong. In any case, if these food-gifts are not sealed by reputable manufacturers, nobody should be accepting their food.

Cleanliness is in order.

So you would consider it reasonable for people to physically assault random catholics over the systematic rape of children and attempted cover-ups by the clergy?

 

[Father Heathen]

Those substandards are unacceptable. Look, we have the coronavirus because of filthy conditions mixing bats with other animals used as food. We have pollution, dirty air and filthy oceans because people are being unclean, and don't care.

...Now is the time for cleanliness. If there's anything we can learn from COVID-19, is that there needs to be a global transition towards cleanliness.

Of course, but pressuming someone is unsanitary because they're Muslim is like pressuming someone is a child molester because they're Catholic.

 

[Cooky]

So you would consider it reasonable for people to physically assault random catholics over the systematic rape of children and attempted cover-ups by the clergy?

Are you actually assuming that I in any way would think that assaults against random Muslims by Indians is acceptable?

You think I'm a monster..?

 

[Cooky]

Of course, but pressuming someone is unsanitary because they're Muslim is like pressuming someone is a child molester because they're Catholic.

Are you drunk? I never suggested that Muslims are unsanitary.

 

[Cooky]

@Father Heathen, you need to work on your reading comprehension.

 

[Aupmanyav]

So you would consider it reasonable for people to physically assault random catholics over the systematic rape of children and attempted cover-ups by the clergy?

Yeah. In India, courts will take into account the provocation, the reason for the outburst. The people who assault will be punished, they should not have taken law in thier own hands, but the punishment may be milder.

Of course, but presuming someone is unsanitary because they're Muslim is like presuming ..

Just being Muslim does not mean that they will be unsanitary, it is the question of economic status. There are families of former Nawabs and Nizams who may be extremely rich. Poor working people may not be as clean as people of better economic standard may be. A poor Muslim may be just as clean or dirty as his poor Hindu counterpart. A rich person will expect a better standard of cleanliness than his poor counterpart, who would accept less cleaner conditions.

Basically, your thinking that an average Hindu will have animosity against a Muslim is misguided. Conflicts occur for particular reasons. During the last 6 years, all disturbances have been political. The Indo-Italian dynasty and its hangers on have lost their privileged positions and are hell-bent on creating problems for the current government led by Prime Minister Narendra Modi.

Otherwise, Hindus and Muslims have lived in peace next to each other for hundreds of years and have helped each other in times of difficulty. Even in the latest communal riot, there were such examples. Google gives you such stories for 2020 (I have selected that date range):
How Hindus and Muslims helped each other in communal riots - Google Search