In need of help with these pieces of scripture

[droog1]

I've heard people quote Mathew 24, about Jesus describing the ends times, all over the place. But I rarely, if ever, hear of anyone discussing the 34th verse:

Mathew 24:34:

Verily, I say unto you, this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled.

Revelation 1:1, seems to concur. John opens the book with:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew his servant things which must shortly come to pass, and he sent and signified by his angel unto his servant John:

It is John's use of the word "shortly", and Jesus' use of "this generation" that has always bothered me. I does seem to me, imho, that even jesus was foretelling the second coming would happen in their lifetime. People have been telling me that I take these verses out of context, but for the life of me I don't see how. I've also been told of "interpretations" of these verses, but they seem to me to be very specific and really don't need interpreting, at least to me.

Can you guys help? What am I missing here.......

P.S. I looked back several pages, and didn't find this discussed yet. If this thread is redundant, then please forgive me......Thanks in advance for any responses....


:angel2:

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I've heard people quote Mathew 24, about Jesus describing the ends times, all over the place. But I rarely, if ever, hear of anyone discussing the 34th verse:

Mathew 24:34:

Verily, I say unto you, this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled.

Revelation 1:1, seems to concur. John opens the book with:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew his servant things which must shortly come to pass, and he sent and signified by his angel unto his servant John:

It is John's use of the word "shortly", and Jesus' use of "this generation" that has always bothered me. I does seem to me, imho, that even jesus was foretelling the second coming would happen in their lifetime. People have been telling me that I take these verses out of context, but for the life of me I don't see how. I've also been told of "interpretations" of these verses, but they seem to me to be very specific and really don't need interpreting, at least to me.

Can you guys help? What am I missing here.......

P.S. I looked back several pages, and didn't find this discussed yet. If this thread is redundant, then please forgive me......Thanks in advance for any responses....


:angel2:

Hi Droog,
In my opinion, it helps to add a couple more verse into the mix for this question.

From 2nd Peter Ch3:
3: Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5: For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old

Here even in the days of Jesus or not too much longer after his days, we have an account of someone with knowledge of the subject at hand (according to the scriptures), hinting that it may be longer than some expect.

Hope that helps a little.

 

[Smoke]

It is John's use of the word "shortly", and Jesus' use of "this generation" that has always bothered me. I does seem to me, imho, that even jesus was foretelling the second coming would happen in their lifetime. People have been telling me that I take these verses out of context, but for the life of me I don't see how.

That's because you're right. The early Christians believed the Second Coming was imminent.

Here even in the days of Jesus or not too much longer after his days, we have an account of someone with knowledge of the subject at hand (according to the scriptures), hinting that it may be longer than some expect.

2 Peter was written at least a generation after Jesus' death, and possibly more than a century after his death. It had already been longer than people expected, and the author is addressing that.

 

[Thief]

I've heard people quote Mathew 24, about Jesus describing the ends times, all over the place. But I rarely, if ever, hear of anyone discussing the 34th verse:

Mathew 24:34:

Verily, I say unto you, this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled.

Revelation 1:1, seems to concur. John opens the book with:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew his servant things which must shortly come to pass, and he sent and signified by his angel unto his servant John:

It is John's use of the word "shortly", and Jesus' use of "this generation" that has always bothered me. I does seem to me, imho, that even jesus was foretelling the second coming would happen in their lifetime. People have been telling me that I take these verses out of context, but for the life of me I don't see how. I've also been told of "interpretations" of these verses, but they seem to me to be very specific and really don't need interpreting, at least to me.

Can you guys help? What am I missing here.......

P.S. I looked back several pages, and didn't find this discussed yet. If this thread is redundant, then please forgive me......Thanks in advance for any responses....


:angel2:

Read the entire chapter as whole.
As you do so....consider it as a statement of comfort, dealt to you in the immediate tense...all the way through the chapter.

Each item 'prophezied' can be seen in your immediate here and now.
Each item could bring a would be believer (someone not yet having a complete theology) to a point of dismay.
The intended advice is to remain sure and calm....in spite of your immediate circumstances.
'This generation' refers to 'your' generation.
When spoken two thousand years ago...the meaning was the same.

 

[Bick]

I've heard people quote Mathew 24, about Jesus describing the ends times, all over the place. But I rarely, if ever, hear of anyone discussing the 34th verse:

Mathew 24:34:

Verily, I say unto you, this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled.

Revelation 1:1, seems to concur. John opens the book with:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew his servant things which must shortly come to pass, and he sent and signified by his angel unto his servant John:

It is John's use of the word "shortly", and Jesus' use of "this generation" that has always bothered me. I does seem to me, imho, that even jesus was foretelling the second coming would happen in their lifetime. People have been telling me that I take these verses out of context, but for the life of me I don't see how. I've also been told of "interpretations" of these verses, but they seem to me to be very specific and really don't need interpreting, at least to me.

Can you guys help? What am I missing here.......

P.S. I looked back several pages, and didn't find this discussed yet. If this thread is redundant, then please forgive me......Thanks in advance for any responses....

:angel2:

MY COMMENTS: I agree, the standard translations make it confusing. From my studies this is how I interpret this:

From the context before Jesus speaks of "this generation not passing away until all these things be fulfilled", He gives the parable of the fig tree, so that those understanding Israelites on the earth near the end of the tribulation period will know that the return of Messiah Jesus is near. Ref. Matt. 24:34; Mark 13:30 and Luke 21:32.

How? The fig tree represents the national privilege of Israel, and leaves and fruit would show Israel having fruit of righteous worthy of the Kingdom.
During that terrible time coming for Israel and the nations, there will be a remnant of Israelite believers, and the leaves on the fig tree represents them.
So, IMO, "this generation" would be those Israelites still alive on the earth and have seen take place all that Jesus told would happen, and can know that Jesus return is immanent.

As for Rev. 1:1, I hope you have a concordance, and a Greek-English Interlinear Translation of the New Testament. If not, you will have to take my word untill you can check it out.
The word "shortly" is the Greek word "en.taxei" which, should be rendered more correctly as "in haste" or "with speed" or "quickly" or "speedily."

John was not, in his time, saying that the day of the Lord was coming soon. But he does say that all that what he sees in his vision will occur swiftly, or speedily. Unfortunately, the opinion of the compilers of the KLV and others believed John meant "soon."

Also, in Revelation, in all these verses in the KJV, "quickly", is used, and they are all the same or variations of the Greek "taxei":
Rev. 2:5; 2:16; 3:11; 11:14; 22:7; 22:12; and 22:20.

I hope this helps.

 

[droog1]

Thanks all for the responses, you have helped a lot.

Thief: I have read these full chapters just to make sure I am not taking anything out of context, and the more I read it, the more the 34th verse stands out, to me at least, like a sore thumb. It really does seem as though Jesus were talking about the generation that was at hand then.

Bick: thanks for the tranlation on Rev. 1. If taken in the original wording, I do see how John may have meant something a bit differently.

I do find it to be a touch hard to believe that Jesus was talking about "every " generation. If I were to read the verses in that context, then it would mean to me that the second coming would happen during every generation, and I just have a little trouble reading that into it. It does seem as though Jesus was being very specific.

Once again folks, thanks for the responses. you guys have helped a lot.


:angel2:

 

[Thief]

Thanks all for the responses, you have helped a lot.

Thief: I have read these full chapters just to make sure I am not taking anything out of context, and the more I read it, the more the 34th verse stands out, to me at least, like a sore thumb. It really does seem as though Jesus were talking about the generation that was at hand then.

Bick: thanks for the tranlation on Rev. 1. If taken in the original wording, I do see how John may have meant something a bit differently.

I do find it to be a touch hard to believe that Jesus was talking about "every " generation. If I were to read the verses in that context, then it would mean to me that the second coming would happen during every generation, and I just have a little trouble reading that into it. It does seem as though Jesus was being very specific.

Once again folks, thanks for the responses. you guys have helped a lot.


:angel2:

Just to follow through.....
Picture yourself as someone in the crowd, hearing the words as they were spoken.
Judea was occupied territory. There were rumors of uprisings at every turn.
Grief and misery at every level.
Each prediction made could be seen at hand.

It would be difficult to assure the crowd, that you know what you are talking about if you're not aware of current events, and the pending results.

There is war on this Earth in each and every generation.
Strife and hardship as well.

Perhaps it would help to say...the first coming....is when you first hear of such things.
The second coming....happens during your last breath.

 

[allright]

Jesus was answering two questions
1 When will these things be? (the destruction of the temple)
The destruction of the temple occured in 70 ad, about 40 years from Jesus death.
2 What will be the sign of your coming and the close of the age?
When you see all the things he described taking place than know your redemption draweth nigh. The generation that sees all the things he descibed taking place will not pass away before he returns.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

2 Peter was written at least a generation after Jesus' death, and possibly more than a century after his death. It had already been longer than people expected, and the author is addressing that.

Post is a bit dated, but I never responded.

The only problem I have with your reply is the absolute position you take in bold. While that may be a certain explanation, I am never so quick to close the door on such topics. However that is your right to do

 

[Muffled]

Thanks all for the responses, you have helped a lot.

Thief: I have read these full chapters just to make sure I am not taking anything out of context, and the more I read it, the more the 34th verse stands out, to me at least, like a sore thumb. It really does seem as though Jesus were talking about the generation that was at hand then.

Bick: thanks for the tranlation on Rev. 1. If taken in the original wording, I do see how John may have meant something a bit differently.

I do find it to be a touch hard to believe that Jesus was talking about "every " generation. If I were to read the verses in that context, then it would mean to me that the second coming would happen during every generation, and I just have a little trouble reading that into it. It does seem as though Jesus was being very specific.

Once again folks, thanks for the responses. you guys have helped a lot.


:angel2:

The word "this" is a referential word, that is it refers to something other than itself.

Context is necessary to figure out what the reference is. Since the passage is prophecy it can't be about the current generation because they don't fit into the prophecy. I agree with "allright" about the answering of questions and see the answer about the coming of Jesus starting in v 23. Before His coming is the sign of His coming and that has occurred in 1974. If you figure on a generation of 70 years, it will not pass until 2044, if 80 years 2054. Usually the fig tree people set the start date as 1946 when Israel became a nation again and that would not pass until 2016 at the earliest.

 

[Morning Star Dhamma]

What thief said in his first post.

This entire chapter can easily be read as a description of things that occur here and now amid the suffering we are bound to encounter, just as we have experienced again and again, even in the time of Noah. "This generation" means you, here and now. Jesus intended his teachings to apply in this present moment, now, in my opinion.

The sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.

Everything we encounter is impermanent and bound to pass away, in fact it already is passing away.

Best wishes

 

[allright]

Jesus is answering 2 questions in Mathew 24

1 "When shall theses things be" (destruction of the temple)
2 "what will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age"

The temple was destoyed by Titus in 70 AD, about 40 years from the time Jesus said this
Mathew 24:33 "when you see all these things take place know that it is near, even at the door".
Verse 35 refers to the people who will be alive when all the other things predicted previously have taken place.
In verse 36 Jesus said "that The Father only knows the time of the end" not even him".
In luke 21 Jesus says Jerusalem will be destroyed and the Jewish people scattered all over the world. That Jerusalem will fall into non Jewish control "until the time of the Gentiles is complete". Then the Jewish people will regain control of Jerusalem.. hardly something to be completed in just 40 years.

 

[jtartar]

I've heard people quote Mathew 24, about Jesus describing the ends times, all over the place. But I rarely, if ever, hear of anyone discussing the 34th verse:

Mathew 24:34:

Verily, I say unto you, this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled.

Revelation 1:1, seems to concur. John opens the book with:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew his servant things which must shortly come to pass, and he sent and signified by his angel unto his servant John:

It is John's use of the word "shortly", and Jesus' use of "this generation" that has always bothered me. I does seem to me, imho, that even jesus was foretelling the second coming would happen in their lifetime. People have been telling me that I take these verses out of context, but for the life of me I don't see how. I've also been told of "interpretations" of these verses, but they seem to me to be very specific and really don't need interpreting, at least to me.

Can you guys help? What am I missing here.......

P.S. I looked back several pages, and didn't find this discussed yet. If this thread is redundant, then please forgive me......Thanks in advance for any responses....


:angel2:

droog1,
The whole 24th chapter of Matt. is what is called The Olivet Sermon. Here Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives,speaking to Peter, James, John and Andrew, Mark 13:3.
They had just been talking to Jesus about the magnificent stones that made up the Temple and the other buildings around the Temple. Jesus told them that these great buildings would be completely destroyed. His disciples then asked Jesus when these things would take place and when the conclusion would be. At the time the disciples thought that Jesus was going to set up the Kingdom at his FIRST appearance, Luke 19:11, Acts 1:6. Later, after Jesus went to heaven and the Holy Spirit was poured out at Pentecost, they began to understand all the things that Jesus had taught them, John 14:26.
Jesus first told them of the things that would take place shortly after his death, but then he went on to tell a longrange prophecy that would extend down to our day. Notice at Luke 21:28, Jesus said that when these things START to occurr, know that your deliverance is near. Then consider also verses 31,31, where Jesus says when you see these things know that the Kingdom is near, that the generation that sees all the things that Jesus had just told them to expect, would not pass away until all the the things he told would be accomplished, the Kingdom of God would be set up on earth.
After Jesus takes over the earth completely we will be in the thousand year Judgement Day. After that, to everyone who obeys Jesus will live forever on earth in a paradise of unbelievable happiness, Rev 20:4, 21:3,4.

 

[Green Kepi]

Good post...allright. In my opinion, you nailed it. From verses 1-36 - its about the destruction of Jerusalem - verses 36 on - its the end of the world. The Jewish thought that the Jewish Law would last until the Judgment.

The expression "this generation" is found 5 times in Matthew. It is never used in any other sense than meaning the generation that is now then living.

Jesus' Kingdom is already here...the church (with headquaters located in Heaven). He cannot rule from Jerusalem...if He'd want to...why? Because He is from the lineage of Jehoianchin. Jeremiah 22 tells us that none of his lineage will ever again rule from Judah.

Jesus' Kingdom was not of this earth...1 Corinthians 15:23-24 - tells us that when He comes He will then turn everything back over to God the Father...after the present earth is destroyed.

 

[reloadthis]

Here is my interpretation:

Mathew 24:34:

"Verily, I say unto you, this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled."

Jesus was talking about passing out of the earth realm. Souls will be stuck until they fulfill what they signed up to before their birth. I think he was referring to something similar to Buddha's teachings on karma, reincarnation, and enlightenment.

 

[Thief]

Here is my interpretation:

Mathew 24:34:

"Verily, I say unto you, this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled."

Jesus was talking about passing out of the earth realm. Souls will be stuck until they fulfill what they signed up to before their birth. I think he was referring to something similar to Buddha's teachings on karma, reincarnation, and enlightenment.

I myself don't get the pre-birth...reincarnation...let's make a deal.
However,I can't say it doesn't happen.

There are some skills of hand that I perform without prior training.
I do such things and people around me seem surprised.
....a previous life knowledge?....maybe....can't prove it....can't declare it.

As for the end of time...Thy kingdom come....prophecy...

Recite the Lord's Prayer, and as you do make note of your declarations and your requests.

'Our Father'.....whose Father....your Father? my Father? children of God are we?
'Thy kingdom come' is an immediate request.
If you receive it, the acquisition happens at that moment.
"The kingdom of heaven is within you." (Luke)

 

[ramrod8789]

I've heard people quote Mathew 24, about Jesus describing the ends times, all over the place. But I rarely, if ever, hear of anyone discussing the 34th verse:

Mathew 24:34:

Verily, I say unto you, this generation shall not pass until all these things be fulfilled.

Revelation 1:1, seems to concur. John opens the book with:

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew his servant things which must shortly come to pass, and he sent and signified by his angel unto his servant John:

It is John's use of the word "shortly", and Jesus' use of "this generation" that has always bothered me. I does seem to me, imho, that even jesus was foretelling the second coming would happen in their lifetime. People have been telling me that I take these verses out of context, but for the life of me I don't see how. I've also been told of "interpretations" of these verses, but they seem to me to be very specific and really don't need interpreting, at least to me.

Can you guys help? What am I missing here.......

P.S. I looked back several pages, and didn't find this discussed yet. If this thread is redundant, then please forgive me......Thanks in advance for any responses....


:angel2:

Jesus is referring to the regeneration of the soul. Everyone that existed in Jesus day when that statement was made is still here today if they have not received Spritual re-birth through the baptism of repentance (washing clean) and then the baptism of Spirit (sanctification of the temple/body), so that the soul can be re-united to the spirit and truth from God.

There is a great deal of ancient Gospel testimony elaborating on the regeneration of the soul but it is largely rejected by Christians due to pride of Roman traditions not knowing that they are existing in half a truth keeping them trapped in the darkness of their own speculations.

Here is a sample from an ancient text that may help give you some clarity.

The Regeneration Of The Soul
1. JESUS sat in the porch of the Temple, and some came to learn his doctrine, and one said unto him, Master, what teachest thou concerning life? 2. And he said unto them, Blessed are they who suffer many experiences, for they shall be made perfect through suffering: they shall be as the angels of God in Heaven and shall die no more, neither shall they be born any more, for death and birth have no more dominion over them. 3. They who have suffered and overcome shall be made Pillars in the Temple of my God, and they shall go out no more. Verily I say unto you, except ye be born again of water and of fire, ye cannot see the kingdom of God. 4. And a certain Rabbi (Nicodemus) came unto him by night for fear of the Jews, and said unto him. How can a man be born again when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born again ? 5. Jesus answered, Verily I say unto you except a man be born again of flesh and of spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and ye hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell whence it cometh or whither it goeth.
6. The light shineth from the East even unto the West; out of the darkness, the Sun ariseth and goeth down into darkness again; so is it with man, from the ages unto the ages. 7. When it cometh from the darkness, it is that he hath lived before, and when it goeth down again into darkness, it is that he may rest for a little, and thereafter again exist. 8. So through many changes must ye be made perfect, as it is written in the book of Job, I am a wanderer, changing place after place and house after house, until I come unto the City and Mansion which is eternal. 9. And Nicodemus said unto him, How can these things be? And Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a teacher in Israel, and understandeth not these things? Verily we speak that which we do know, and bear witness to that which we have seen, and ye receive not our witness. 10. If I have told you of earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you of Heavenly things? No man hath ascended into Heaven, but he that descended out of Heaven, even the Son-Daughter of man which is in Heaven.

With the soul being eternal. The generations of Jesus day are still the generations of our day. If we are still here on this earth breathing in the flesh, it's because we have not entered into perfect rest. There is no rest for the wicked.

God Bless

 

[reloadthis]

Our Father= The source of all life and spirit, we all come from one source

Who art in heaven= Non material realm

Hallowed be thy name= Sacred name, here again the prayer is trying to name God "Our Father", so sacred is his name, so indescribable...

Thy kingdom come= Let the source of all creation manifest in the material realm

Thy will be done= Allow God's (indescribable sacred source of all creation) will to manifest through us, allow our souls to fulfill our destiny which is to glorify God (which is to serve and love one another so that we will be witnesses and messengers of divine will).

As earth as it is in heaven= As above, so below

The rest of the prayer is to ask for grace to accomplish our divine tasks, etc...

 

[reloadthis]

Jesus is referring to the regeneration of the soul. Everyone that existed in Jesus day when that statement was made is still here today if they have not received Spritual re-birth through the baptism of repentance (washing clean) and then the baptism of Spirit (sanctification of the temple/body), so that the soul can be re-united to the spirit and truth from God.

There is a great deal of ancient Gospel testimony elaborating on the regeneration of the soul but it is largely rejected by Christians due to pride of Roman traditions not knowing that they are existing in half a truth keeping them trapped in the darkness of their own speculations.

Here is a sample from an ancient text that may help give you some clarity.

The Regeneration Of The Soul
1. JESUS sat in the porch of the Temple, and some came to learn his doctrine, and one said unto him, Master, what teachest thou concerning life? 2. And he said unto them, Blessed are they who suffer many experiences, for they shall be made perfect through suffering: they shall be as the angels of God in Heaven and shall die no more, neither shall they be born any more, for death and birth have no more dominion over them. 3. They who have suffered and overcome shall be made Pillars in the Temple of my God, and they shall go out no more. Verily I say unto you, except ye be born again of water and of fire, ye cannot see the kingdom of God. 4. And a certain Rabbi (Nicodemus) came unto him by night for fear of the Jews, and said unto him. How can a man be born again when he is old? can he enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born again ? 5. Jesus answered, Verily I say unto you except a man be born again of flesh and of spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and ye hear the sound thereof, but cannot tell whence it cometh or whither it goeth.
6. The light shineth from the East even unto the West; out of the darkness, the Sun ariseth and goeth down into darkness again; so is it with man, from the ages unto the ages. 7. When it cometh from the darkness, it is that he hath lived before, and when it goeth down again into darkness, it is that he may rest for a little, and thereafter again exist. 8. So through many changes must ye be made perfect, as it is written in the book of Job, I am a wanderer, changing place after place and house after house, until I come unto the City and Mansion which is eternal. 9. And Nicodemus said unto him, How can these things be? And Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a teacher in Israel, and understandeth not these things? Verily we speak that which we do know, and bear witness to that which we have seen, and ye receive not our witness. 10. If I have told you of earthly things and ye believe not, how shall ye believe if I tell you of Heavenly things? No man hath ascended into Heaven, but he that descended out of Heaven, even the Son-Daughter of man which is in Heaven.

With the soul being eternal. The generations of Jesus day are still the generations of our day. If we are still here on this earth breathing in the flesh, it's because we have not entered into perfect rest. There is no rest for the wicked.

God Bless

Well said, Thank you. :angel2:

 

[Thief]

Our Father= The source of all life and spirit, we all come from one source

Who art in heaven= Non material realm

Hallowed be thy name= Sacred name, here again the prayer is trying to name God "Our Father", so sacred is his name, so indescribable...

Thy kingdom come= Let the source of all creation manifest in the material realm

Thy will be done= Allow God's (indescribable sacred source of all creation) will to manifest through us, allow our souls to fulfill our destiny which is to glorify God (which is to serve and love one another so that we will be witnesses and messengers of divine will).

As earth as it is in heaven= As above, so below

The rest of the prayer is to ask for grace to accomplish our divine tasks, etc...

So you do understand...the intended effect is aimed right at you?