In or out of the broom closet?

[Nisou Kitsune]

This is a topic that I am on the fence about, sometimes. Should we, collectively speaking, be completely open, or should we keep ourselves half in and half out of the closet, or should we just keep silent? Should we be willing to say we are Pagans/Heathens/Witches/LHP/etc out loud to further the movement or should we keep our identities withheld for safety reasons or for our own reasons?

Personally, I dont mind saying I am a Witch and telling people what the difference is from Wiccans, but I dont want to tell people the deeper secrets, the Oathbound material, things that should stay quiet, or any specifics on the rituals I do. I think that we should keep our mouths shut, and keep the Mystery in the "Mystery Religion".

What do you think?

 

[blackout]

Every now and then
I get upset, frustrated,
even righteously angry
about the double standards,
regarding who may be open in society,
and who 'is to' remain hidden.
Who may live out in the light,
and who is confined to the shadows.
Whose religions/paths may be shared,
and whose must remain "mystery".

But then, most of the time,
I figure "Hidden(Occult)/Eclipsed/Shadowed/Mystery"
not only go with... but ARE... the territory. so.

 

[Erebus]

It's largely down to personal choice. For me personally, staying quiet about what I believe/practice suits me. Most people would have a hard time understanding or accepting it, so I don't feel the need to give myself the extra trouble. Hell even on RF I tend to keep relatively low key and provide explanations that others will be able to understand.
As a rule if I tell somebody about my religion I just stick to the basics.

 

[Vorinn]

I think there's a big difference between telling people that you are a Pagan (or Witch, or whatever word you use to describe yourself), and telling them deeper secrets, much less oathbound mysteries. I think the first is a personal choice and the second is a big no-no. But the deeper stuff is stuff that most people don't really care about or want to know. Most people just want a basic label and brief description of what you think is important about it.

I am personally not really out of the broom closet to anyone but my partner, though. Most of my friends are very scientific/rational types, mostly atheists or people who just don't think about religion, and I worry about how they would react. That is totally based out of fear on my part, and it's a hang-up that I'm working on getting over, but that's where I am right now.

 

[Antibush5]

I don't really feel the need to tell people (I'm also a theodist while Confucian) religion doesn't come up very often, so I feel no need to forcibly bring it up.

 

[Vintermunder]

I chose to be open with with my religion to my family and friends about everything except oath bound information. It cost me my family on my mothers side (all roman catholic) a few shots at being promoted but I kept my personal dignity, and met my wife. It has been a series of hard choices, and a willingness to let go of people who couldn't accept me. I did it though, and all I can say is that so far for me, its been worth it.

 

[Nisou Kitsune]

But what do you guys think about the push for us to be out publicly? Like the Pagan Coming Out Day organization?

 

[Gentoo]

I wear my pentacle out in the open, at work around friends and most family. But I don't talk about it unless someone else brings it up first, and my responses vary depending on who's asking... Does that constitute being in the closet? Maybe, maybe not. Personally, I call it "Not making a big deal out of it because it isn't a big deal in the first place."

 

[Draka]

I wear my pentacle out in the open, at work around friends and most family. But I don't talk about it unless someone else brings it up first, and my responses vary depending on who's asking... Does that constitute being in the closet? Maybe, maybe not. Personally, I call it "Not making a big deal out of it because it isn't a big deal in the first place."

Pretty much the same. I wear my pentacle everywhere I go, at all times. I have one hanging from my rearview mirror too. There's even a "Goddess Bless" bumper sticker on my van. It's pretty obvious I'm "open" about what kind of beliefs I have, but it's not like I go around telling everyone exactly what I believe. I don't bring it up. If someone asks me I give them generals, but I don't go into specifics unless I know them well enough and they are either on the same path as I or are specifically wanting to learn and follow the same path and are seeking a teacher.

 

[Comicaze247]

Was never in the broom closet. I've always been open about what I believe. I don't shove it in people's faces or anything, but I'm not afraid to talk about it when the subject comes up. Because I like talking about philosophy, culture, and anthropology (and because there are often street preachers near my work), it often does. I have yet to experience any actual discrimination myself. The closest thing to it has been correcting misconceptions about Paganism.

I understand that there are risks to being out of the broom closet. But personally, I would rather not make friends under a false assumption or work under somebody who hates absolutely everything I am. I also feel that being out of the broom closet brings us closer to acceptance. Nobody ever got their rights without standing up for them. That's just my opinion.

 

[Draka]

A good thing about being open is that, since there aren't a whole lot of us in main society, it gives others on the same path the clue that you are someone they can talk to or share with. A possible friend. Just yesterday as I was in the checkout lane the cashier complimented my pentacle. Which then resulted in a small conversation about where to get them as she had lost hers and didn't really know a good place to find them and I directed her to where I got mine and my Handfasting/Wedding rings as well. She was very appreciative and will most likely find quite a nice replacement whereas before she was feeling down about losing hers and not being able to find another. By simply openly wearing mine she was helped in some small measure. You never know when the help needed may be greater and that chance might not be there for you to help if you aren't open about who you are and what your path is. Just another reason I'm quite open about my path.

 

[Adramelek]

Nowadays as far as the work a day world is concerned I find it best for myself to remain closeted. It is more "dangerous" for a Setian/Black Magician to be out in the open than it would be for a Wiccan or say a White Witch. Profane society still has a very negative view of those of us who are Setian or contemporary Satanists or those who are practicioners of other Left-Hand Path religions in general. I've actually been fired from a couple of jobs for being too open about my religious philosophy. I've even had people frown upon me for wearing something as simple as an Egyptian Ankh.

However, even though the state that I live in is very conservative there are still occult outlets for those of us who seek the mysteries of existence and Magic. In the city I live in there is an occult book store called Piece of Mind and in my early years it was through an employee of that store which suggested the Temple of Set to me. And during those early formative years in my life, through my seeking and studieing I eventually found my True Self as a Setian Black Magician. So it doesn't really matter if you live in a big city or small city/town, if you hear the Call, and if you truely seek, you shall find. You can never really know where the Path of Life is going to guide you, it's just one of the many great Mysteries of unique existence. :bat:

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[sol_mas]

I find it interesting that, since I started down this path, no one has asked me about religion. I haven't brought it up with anyone other than my spouse.

Does this mean I'm in the broom closet? I suppose it does.

I feel I 'owe' it to my faith, though, to talk about it if I am ever asked.

There's a lot to be said about something someone in another post wrote - I know there are others out there, in their own broom closets, who could use a friend in the Pagan community. I know I could.

Maybe it is time to be more 'open' about it.

-sm

 

[Adramelek]

I should also state here that even in the work place I am always Aware of who and what I Am, I just wear my preverbial conservative mask. However, after work and on my own time the mask comes off and I become rather expressive of my Setian/Satanic nature by doning black clothing and/or wearing some of my Magical jewelry such as my pentagram of Azazel pendant or my Pentagram of Set ring, things like that. I do indeed possess a great pridefulness of my Being.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

 

[Nisou Kitsune]

Adramelek, you have been fired bc you were too open?? What happened?

 

[Orias]

This is a topic that I am on the fence about, sometimes. Should we, collectively speaking, be completely open, or should we keep ourselves half in and half out of the closet, or should we just keep silent? Should we be willing to say we are Pagans/Heathens/Witches/LHP/etc out loud to further the movement or should we keep our identities withheld for safety reasons or for our own reasons?

In my personal opinion, and speaking as a Satanist, I think we should be open with who we are but not what we personally believe.

Unless of course, One asks our ontological and philosophical views. But metaphysical words hardly pertain to the concrete reality in which we live.

What we voice to each other (like the forum) is what "furthers our movement", though even if we did not voice such things, the movement would still be moving.

Personally, I dont mind saying I am a Witch and telling people what the difference is from Wiccans, but I dont want to tell people the deeper secrets, the Oathbound material, things that should stay quiet, or any specifics on the rituals I do. I think that we should keep our mouths shut, and keep the Mystery in the "Mystery Religion".

I agree, unless One is truly curious and wishes to know my personal views of what makes me a magician and child of the night.

Otherwise when people ask me what I believe I usually just respond, me. Usually it ends there, but there was a few select people at school that liked to impose their silly beliefs upon me, which concluded in me getting an in school suspension and phone call to my dad.

Some people just can't handle getting their rear ends verbally and metaphorically kicked

 

[Orias]

I should also state here that even in the work place I am always Aware of who and what I Am, I just wear my preverbial conservative mask. However, after work and on my own time the mask comes off and I become rather expressive of my Setian/Satanic nature by doning black clothing and/or wearing some of my Magical jewelry such as my pentagram of Azazel pendant or my Pentagram of Set ring, things like that. I do indeed possess a great pridefulness of my Being.

Xeper.
/Adramelek\

I concur, especially when listening to my favorite music.

Its strange how my own sense of my Self can raise the hairs on the back of my neck and bring a tear near my eye.

 

[drakonyx]

I think it should be up to the individual. Many people live in areas where Paganism is accepted, but others don't. I've heard of people losing custody of their children or losing their jobs (or chances at a promotion) when it became known that they were Pagan. I'm out of the "broom closet" but I don't have much to lose. I'm an activist who's self-employed. I do, however, live in a conservative area so I have to temper myself a little at times.

 

[darkstar]

I've had many experiences with this kind of thing. My wife and I were both in the broom closet for a long time.
As it stands now, I'm still not open with my family because many of them are fundamentalists that will not understand and lecture me about "Devil Worship". However my mother knows of my faith, my Wife told her own mother (And she is still in denial, convincing herself that we will come back to Christianity) and all of our friends are aware of our faith and many share in our beliefs.

In College I also came out of the broom closet. In fact I did it because there was nobody to represent the Pagans at my school. I started a club, where anyone of any faith was welcomed to come and share their faith in an accepting and non hostile environment in order to dismiss myths and grow understanding. There were ups and downs with that, but in general I found more accepting people than I previously thought.

That being said I've had a lot of bad experiences as well. In my opinion, the only way for us as a pagan community to collectively come out of the broom closet safely would be for ALL of us to do it. And I don't see that happening anytime soon. Until then, it's a nice dream but doubtful it will happen for a long time.

 

[sol_mas]

I saw this article and thought of this thread:

Why Being Yourself at Work Pays Off - Yahoo! News

"Have you ever been less than honest about your background at work? It may not be a good idea. Hiding your true social identity — race and ethnicity, gender, age, religion, sexual orientation or a disability — at work can result in decreased job satisfaction and increased turnover, according to a new study by researchers at Rice University, the University of Houston and George Mason University."

Not that it changes the reality of what being openly Pagan means in terms of missed promotions, fewer hours, etc, just thought it was worth sharing.

-sm