sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
So then, when was it created?
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In the Beginning...of What?
- Thread starter sandy whitelinger
- Start date
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
And since this is a creation story , just when were they created because two of the three are definately enumerated.
Difficult to answer. In Judaism there are multiple heavens. Some may have been created when the earth was and some may not been created but were co-existing with G-d before creation. Does the answer really matter? The point is G-d is the a priori.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
I understand God through His creation and it's account. I can account for all three heavens and multiple "layers" of heaven using th KJV
John did Not live at the time of Genesis, I can't see a connection to John ever being called to the third heaven.
Who was called to the third heaven I find was the apostle Paul at 2 Corinthians 12:2-4.
I find the third heaven which servant Paul was referring to is the third heaven or the new heaven of 2 Peter 3:13.
So, I see No connection to the heavens and the earth of Genesis 1 in those verses.
(1) In Genesis I find their is the physical/material heavens over us, the heavens of 'earth's atmosphere'.
(2) Within the physical/material heavens we have the 'mid-heavens' where the birds fly.
(3) Then, some refer to 'outer space', and even beyond earth's atmosphere as the heavens. The starry heavens.
Before God created the visible material realm it seems according to Isaiah 57:15 God resides or lives in a 'high and holy place ' which we also call heaven "Our Father which art in Heaven......" which is also an angelic dwelling place.
I use both a Greek Interlinear translation and the Hebrew, which also shows the English from the Hebrew.
So, originally Genesis was written in Hebrew, thus to me it then follows Hebrew grammar rules.
When King James had the Hebrew and Greek translated into English there are some English words No longer in use today, plus there are minor differences but Not enough to change the meaning. KJV missed the 's' at Genesis 1.
I was taught the Hebrew word ' sha.ma'yim ' is always in the plural, thus as ' heaven(s)' at Genesis 1.
Creation story as in meaning the start of the beginning of the visible material realm of existence.
Because of the accuracy of microwaves (CMBR 'cosmic microwave background radiation' ) then 'just when where they created ' science can date the beginning or start of the physical/material universe at about 13.5+ billion years.
So, Earth with its heavens (atmospheric, mid-heavens, starry heavens) would be after the start or beginning of our universe, but God's high-and-holy invisible heavenly home would be before visible creation existed. 1 Kings 8:39,49.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Ok, you just coul have said you dont know.
One heaven was mentioned in Genesis1:1 KJV . A second heaven is mentioned in Genesis 1:8 KJV. The third is mentioned in Genesis1:20 KJV.
You are certainly free to believe what you wish, but perhaps here we should stick to text study.
Absolute rubbage.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Enlighten me please.
I have a bookshelf dedicated to Torah and Torah commentary and a second to Hebrew, but here all you offer is a fool's errand? No thanks.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
And you accuse me of dodging...hmmm...strange way to debate.I have a bookshelf dedicated to Torah and Torah commentary and a second to Hebrew, but here all you offer is a fool's errand? No thanks.
Rubbish 1, response 0.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Look, dude, If I'm wrong I'm asking to be edjumacated.I have a bookshelf dedicated to Torah and Torah commentary and a second to Hebrew, but here all you offer is a fool's errand? No thanks.
What I find at Genesis 1 is that God created the heavens.....
What I find at Genesis 1:8 is about the ' firmament ' heaven ( the sky )
What I find at Genesis 1:20 is also the same ' firmament ' heaven ( mid-heaven used by the birds to fly )
I also find the firmament ( sky expanse heaven) to be mentioned at:
Genesis 1:6
Genesis 1:7
Genesis 1:14
Genesis 1:15
Genesis 1:17
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
The firmament is not the sky. It divided the waters from above from the waters below and is where the celestial bodies exist. The open firmament of heaven is the sky where the birds fly.
Celestial bodies as in stars, or celestial bodies as in angels, or the resurrected ones of Revelation 20:6.
The spiritual heavens is where God resides Not connected to earthly heavens according to 1 Kings 8:27,39,49
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Of course. Yes to both, stars and where God resides. So now we have three heavens. The one where God seems to reside which you curiously called heavens. The one where the celestial bodies are (stars) and where the birds fly.
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sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
<yawn>ignore</yawn>
RedDragon94
Love everyone, meditate often
When you say the original text, is it the actual stone tablets that Moses beheld God write upon with his finger?