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In the beginning...
- Thread starter Ted Evans
- Start date
Wow, you are joking, right? OK, you are not joking...in the beginning, IOW, before the BB, where did those four components come from, when and how were they created, in the beginning, i.e. "to come into existence : ARISE b : to have a starting point"?
I certainly agree with that assertion, now, can you tell me where, when and how that was accomplished, can you do that, keeping in mind, “…answers that can be supported by empirical scientific evidence, not theories.”
Once again, what makes you think there was a 'before the BB'?
Why do you think the question of 'where they came from' is even meaningful?
You are asking a series of questions that is quite likely to simply be a list of meaningless questions that have assumptions that are false (like that there is a beginning--or even worse, that there was a 'before the beginning'). In fact, ALL evidence we have at this point suggests your questions are not even meaningful--that there was no 'origin' for those things.
There is one thing that I have very little patience with and absolutely no respect for, and that is dishonesty. Perhaps you did not notice, “questions” is plural, that is all encompassing, it means all questions.
And I did answer them. Which one do you think I failed to answer?
Evolution, broadly, just means change, but I think you're referring to biological evolution, which has to do with any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next. This does not apply to cosmology. I still fail to see the connection.
Those have been addressed (see my 1st post). Many of your questions are self-contradictory or make no sense, relativistically.
Religion can answer none of these empirically. Empiricism is foreign to religion.
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I can tell you what it is supposed to be about but beyond that, you are on your own.
The simple condensed version, where, when and how did space, time, energy and matter come into existence “in the beginning”, IOW, before the “dot/singularity” that science wants to begin with at least that is how it seems with those posting in this thread.
Why do you think that is a meaningful question?
I got it, I understand what “scientific theory” is, I have read it in many articles, I have been told 1728 times, more or less, in this thread what it means. I have not asked a question about anything that has been proven with empirical evidence, unless, my questions in the OP have been, would you say they have been and if so, can you provide a link that can be verified?
Thanks for your comments, great points.
More to the point, why is it raised in an evolution vs creationism forum ...
... unless, of course, it's a backhanded appeal to the God of the Gas?
How about we start with these? You quote your answer to each of those questions and I will apologize for implying that you were being dishonest with your statement,
Now, if you cannot quote verbatim, your answers to those questions, then will you admit to making a false statement, twice?
[So, can you tell me what matter is created by the energy of a nuclear explosion? Since the OP refers to in the beginning and as far as I know, there were no nuclear weapons at that time so how did energy create matter, in the beginning? What was the source of that energy?
Nor did I say they were, nor did I say anything about how old the universe is, did I? Why do folks insist on any subject in creation other than the OP, is it because they know they cannot answer the questions with empirical evidence?
Where did I ask that, can you quote my words, not yours?
What is your definition of “beginning”?
Was the “Dot/singularity” there before the BB? If so, where did it come from, what did it consist of? What triggered the “explosion”?
OK, which one am I supposed to believe as honest, the one that says there is no information or ones like these two?
So with all of that, why not just answer the questions as they were asked, or, just ignore the post? Out of all the responses to the OP, how many answered the questions and how many tried to go off on how something could be done, or what could have or, completely off on a tangent?]
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Why not, is creation not a subject of evolution and creationism?
I am waiting for you to quote your answers to my questions that you claimed that you had answered, they are forthcoming, are they not?
OK, so you cannot answer my questions, no surprise.
The scientifically literate would never start with the premise that science "proves" anything, nor would they accept that said miracles were supernatural. Science simply cannot deal with magic.
They might be astonished by these miracles, but would assume there was some natural but unknown mechanism behind them.
We do not know what the components needed for creation are. The four you mentioned clearly didn't predate creation.
Science may begin with speculation, but it's a process, and the speculation must be followed by observations, theorums, testing, and peer review before anything could be considered a theory.
They can, but they don't apply to biological evolution, which is what I'm assuming you're referring to. Biological evolution is not just "change." It's a specific genomic change by specific mechanisms.
Only in the very general sense of "changing." It is in no way comparable to biological evolution.
The mechanisms of the Big Bang are an active field of cosmology. What empirical evidence there is is beyond the scope of normal, RF discussion. I'm sure you could Google the scientific articles and studies, but they're likely to be technical in the extreme. Ie: If you're genuinely interested in the subject, you're asking the wrong audience.
Good grief, I think I see the problem; I have a theory (the analysis of a set of facts in their relation to one another 2 : abstract thought : SPECULATION) and you know what I have or do not have, even my conclusion. Nothing scientific about it, just simple definition of an English word.
After reading the posts in this thread, it is certainly easy to understand why there are so many that apparently believe that in the beginning there was nothing and then it exploded and over billllions and billions of years the universe was created. No space, no time, no energy, no matter, no intelligent programing, just a miracle that trumps every miracle in the Bible. Now that is faith that many Christians do not have.
Here is your original list:
In the beginning...
1) If there is space, energy and time but no matter, can anything be created?
2) If there is energy, time and matter but no space, where would anything created be placed?
3) If there is time, matter and space but no energy, how could anything be created?
4) If there is matter, space and energy but no time, when could anything be created?
5) Where did space, energy, time and matter come from?
6) Is the universe finite or infinite and if, it is infinite, can the age be determined?
7) If anyone cares to answer, I am looking for answers that can be supported by empirical scientific evidence, not theories."
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The first 5 questions are literally meaningless. That is the answer to them. I have explained *why* they are meaningless questions. That was a further answer to them.
And again, the answer is that none of the 4 things you mention: matter, energy, space, and time are independent of the others. And it is meaningless to ask where time 'came from'.
For 6, the answer is that the age of the current expansion is about 13.8 billion years. Whether it is even meaningful to go before that is not known. We do not know whether the universe is infinite spatially or not.
7 isn't a question, it is directive. if you want the evidence that the current expansion is about 13.8 billion years old, I have provided a link, although you can easily look up the Wikipedia page for it.
Sometimes the answer to a question is that the question makes no sense.
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No, actually.
Give one quote from a respected scientist that says this is how it was.