In the beginning...

[DavidFirth]

What do you yourself mean by the word "theory"?

You're actually pulling the bait and switch on me, now?

 

[DavidFirth]

Not mighty at all. But your claims are very, very far from being proven.

Given the nature of time, there does NOT have to be a 'first'. And that destroys your whole viewpoint.

Well, oh wise one, why don't you tell me about it? What was first? What was second? What was third?

 

[Polymath257]

You are not starting at, "In the beginning", what components were in the "dot" and where did they come from?

What 'dot'?

In Big Bang cosmology, as done with general relativity, there simply *is* no 'beginning. There is only *after*. That is what it means to be a singularity.

 

[Polymath257]

Well, oh wise one, why don't you tell me about it? What was first? What was second? What was third?

Once again, why do you assume there is a first?

 

[DavidFirth]

Once again, why do you assume there is a first?

Why do you assume there wasn't a first? You're the wise one. So tell me about it.

 

[Polymath257]

But what if God created the universe 10,000 years ago with everything in place including the light and scientists just think it all started millions of years ago? Then the scientists would all be wrong, wouldn't they?

And if it was created last Thursday with all memories and everything looking as it would, nobody could tell either.

Sorry, but Last Thursdayism doesn't cut it.

 

[DavidFirth]

And if it was created last Thursday with all memories and everything looking as it would, nobody could tell either.

Sorry, but Last Thursdayism doesn't cut it.

Why not?

 

[Polymath257]

Why do you assume there wasn't a first? You're the wise one. So tell me about it.

I make no assumptions because of the lack of relevant evidence. Time could be infinite into the past. It could also be finite, but have no 'first'. There could be a 'first', but without any qualities of a deity. But time and matter/energy/space are co-existent. To talk about the 'cause' of any of them is self-contradictory.

 

[Polymath257]

Why not?

For the same reason the hypothesis that we live in the Matrix doesn't cut it. it is untestable. And truth is defined via testing.

 

[DavidFirth]

I make no assumptions because of the lack of relevant evidence. Time could be infinite into the past. It could also be finite, but have no 'first'. There could be a 'first', but without any qualities of a deity. But time and matter/energy/space are co-existent. To talk about the 'cause' of any of them is self-contradictory.

Do you assume abiogenesis? Or do you have another theory about the first life form?

 

[DavidFirth]

For the same reason the hypothesis that we live in the Matrix doesn't cut it. it is untestable. And truth is defined via testing.

How are you going to test big bang theory?

 

[Polymath257]

Do you assume abiogenesis? Or do you have another theory about the first life form?

Why bring this up? Life started on Earth about 9 billion years after the universal expansion started.

Are you trying to change the subject?

 

[Polymath257]

How are you going to test big bang theory?

Which part of it?

The universe is expanding as shown by red-shifts. It was once hot and dense as shown by background radiation and chemical abundances. The background radiation also provides plenty of information about the early stages of the expansion. That is what scientists mean when they talk about the Big Bang.

 

[DavidFirth]

Why bring this up? Life started on Earth about 9 billion years after the universal expansion started.

Are you trying to change the subject?

No, I'm trying to get the wise one to tell me about everything since I'm too stupid to know.

So this first life form, tell me more about it.

 

[DavidFirth]

Which part of it?

The universe is expanding as shown by red-shifts. It was once hot and dense as shown by background radiation and chemical abundances. The background radiation also provides plenty of information about the early stages of the expansion. That is what scientists mean when they talk about the Big Bang.

I already shot that down. God is all powerful. When He created He created everything in place. He didn't have to wait millions of years for the light, He created the light at the same time He created the stars.

I want you to tell me how you are going to test it, so ALL of it.

 

[Ted Evans]

Yes. Energy can be converted into matter. E=mc^2.

Keeping in mind the OP, “In the beginning” can you provide some examples of that and how it can be accomplished “in the beginning” before there was anything? IOW, no outside involvement, all you have is energy, can you do that?

 

[Ted Evans]

Mass is a form of energy. Your question shows a lack of understanding.

Great, is asking questions not a method to improve “understanding”? So I will ask the same question as in 1).

Keeping in mind the OP, “In the beginning” can you provide some examples of that and how it can be accomplished “in the beginning” before there was anything? IOW, no outside involvement, all you have is mass, space and time can you do that?

 

[Ted Evans]

And if time, matter, energy, and space are all in existence when any of the others are, none of your questions are relevant.

So you say, I will wait for you to answer my previous questions before I accept that assertion as fact. But allow me to see if I understand you correctly, in the beginning there is matter and time but no energy and space, still, the universe could have been created, is that what you are suggesting?

 

[Ted Evans]

This assumes a 'cause' for all of these things. It also assumes a time before time existed (to come from), so again your question makes little sense.

It assumes no such thing. Even you have admitted that at least two of the components are needed for creation, which I believe in itself is absurd so are you suggesting that those components were always in existence, they were just there?

What is there about, “in the beginning” that does not compute for you? I am using it in the common definition of “beginning”… “the point at which something begins : START”

I admit, I am beginning to understand why my question makes little sense to you.

 

[Polymath257]

I already shot that down. God is all powerful. When He created He created everything in place. He didn't have to wait millions of years for the light, He created the light at the same time He created the stars.

I want you to tell me how you are going to test it, so ALL of it.

Falling back to Last Thursdayism is a reductio ad absurdum. You failed.