Incest among other kinds of sex.

[Mycroft]

I don't get what your point is.
Do you mean people will always find reason (every conceivable occasion) to justify their opinion?
Therefor my opinion is irrelevant or unimportant or what?

My point was that whether you're screwing your sister, or some chick you met in a bar, you should always use contraception anyway.

 

[Pudding]

My point was that whether you're screwing your sister, or some chick you met in a bar, you should always use contraception anyway.

That is just a claims without any support.

 

[Mycroft]

That is just a claims without any support.

Really? So what if you meet a girl in a bar, you screw her without protection (given that my claims have no support as you say) and you discover later that he's HIV positive, or has an STD?

 

[LuisDantas]

Sure that's true. But like I said: the problem of offspring is one of education. And non-incestuous couples have deformed offspring all the time.

But not nearly as often as couple of close genetic resemblance.

If a person, for example, has a congenital heart defect which has a high-risk of being inherited by their offspring, should that person be prevented from having any?

It is of course a personal decision, but it is proper to make the person aware of the risks and, to some degree, encourage avoidance of genetic offspring - or at least of taking appropriate care to avoid the worst of the risks by way of, say, preventive medicine.

 

[Erebus]

Ultimately, I feel that consenting adults should be able to do more or less what they want with each other, providing it isn't harming somebody who didn't/isn't capable of consent. I include actions that would be harmful to the consenting parties here. It's your life, your body, your choice.

Of course, that doesn't mean I'm going to join in. I certainly have no incestuous desires. I would also strongly encourage my own friends and family not to try it (not that they have incestuous desires either) as it seems to be a good way to cause some emotional damage.

The difficulty with incest is in the potential to cause harm to a non-consenting party by producing a child with any number of health problems. I would hope that any incestuous couple considering having a child, would check with a doctor first. Of course, I realise that this is only a hope.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Sure that's true. But like I said: the problem of offspring is one of education. And non-incestuous couples have deformed offspring all the time.

Only because there are so many non-incestuous couples now. Say for the sake of argument the odds of a non-incestuous couple having a child that has genetic complications is 1 in 200. How many such couples are there in society? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? Those genetic complications are going to occur a lot. The chances for a non-incestuous couple of having deformed offspring are much lower than for an incestuous couple. Indeed, the chances of someone born of incest having children with fatal genetic failings (even if they have sex with someone not born of incest) are also greater. The same is true for those born as a result of cousin-cousin relations.

Here's a brief summary: http://www.geneticseducation.nhs.uk/genetic-glossary/249-cousin-marriage

If a person, for example, has a congenital heart defect which has a high-risk of being inherited by their offspring, should that person be prevented from having any?

That's a question I'm really not comfortable with answering - mostly because I'm not entirely sure which way I'd answer. But also because of what I might learn about myself if I do answer it one way or the other. If society starts sterilising people (as a method of preventing them from having kids they could pass their condition on to) because they have 'undesirable conditions' then where will that end? Like I said before, it ends up sounding really eugenic-y.

 

[Pudding]

Really? So what if you meet a girl in a bar, you screw her without protection (given that my claims have no support as you say) and you discover later that she's HIV positive, or has an STD?

My mistake, my comment #22 is inappropriate.

I should say that your giving example in post #21 is incompatible with your previous statement.

Your previous statement is:
You could say that contraception should be used on every conceivable occasion.

If a couple wants to have kids and the possibilities to have a healthy child is in an acceptable level, why they should take contraception?
I know the acceptable level is subjective to every person.

 

[Mycroft]

My mistake, my comment #22 is inappropriate.

I should say that your giving example in post #21 is incompatible with your previous statement.

Your previous statement is:
You could say that contraception should be used on every conceivable occasion.

If a couple wants to have kids and the possibilities to have a healthy child is in an acceptable level, why they should take contraception?
I know the acceptable level is subjective to every person.

It was a joke. Apparently one you missed.

 

[Mycroft]

Only because there are so many non-incestuous couples now. Say for the sake of argument the odds of a non-incestuous couple having a child that has genetic complications is 1 in 200. How many such couples are there in society? Thousands? Tens of thousands? Hundreds of thousands? Millions? Those genetic complications are going to occur a lot. The chances for a non-incestuous couple of having deformed offspring are much lower than for an incestuous couple. Indeed, the chances of someone born of incest having children with fatal genetic failings (even if they have sex with someone not born of incest) are also greater. The same is true for those born as a result of cousin-cousin relations.

Here's a brief summary: http://www.geneticseducation.nhs.uk/genetic-glossary/249-cousin-marriage




That's a question I'm really not comfortable with answering - mostly because I'm not entirely sure which way I'd answer. But also because of what I might learn about myself if I do answer it one way or the other. If society starts sterilising people (as a method of preventing them from having kids they could pass their condition on to) because they have 'undesirable conditions' then where will that end? Like I said before, it ends up sounding really eugenic-y.

So what about in the near future then, when Gene-editing is quite widely available. If the only argument against it is 'shrek-children', then gene editing will eventually make that objection obsolete.

 

[Mindmaster]

I vote yes because I actually don't care who you want to bang as long as it's not rape. I don't think it's the governments business to tell you what to do with your family or whether or not your troglodyte kids make you happy. Also, my religious standards give the big screw you to conventional morality so hey... Want to tag your sister, well... is she hot and willing? I could care less.

 

[Mycroft]

It is of course a personal decision, but it is proper to make the person aware of the risks and, to some degree, encourage avoidance of genetic offspring - or at least of taking appropriate care to avoid the worst of the risks by way of, say, preventive medicine.

But the cases of passing on a recessive gene, or a heart-defect amount, more or less, to being the same problem.


And as gene-editing gets fully under way, the case for genetics in incestuous offspring will become a nonissue anyway.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

So what about in the near future then, when Gene-editing is quite widely available. If the only argument against it is 'shrek-children', then gene editing will eventually make that objection obsolete.

I don't know. I think I still wouldn't be comfy with the whole idea. I suspect society wouldn't be either; one new advent in technology won't just shake off centuries - millennia, even - of perception.

 

[Pudding]

It was a joke. Apparently one you missed.

I have already said that in my previous post.

I take it that you're just joking because it doesn't make sense.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

But the cases of passing on a recessive gene, or a heart-defect amount, more or less, to being the same problem.

The chances of that happening increase, however, if all you have to pass on are recessive genes.

And as gene-editing gets fully under way, the case for genetics in incestuous offspring will become a nonissue anyway.

That's assuming the technology becomes widely available to the public.

 

[Smart_Guy]

There are other things. My views:
- family bonds already mentioned
- similar maturity levels, adults should only have such relations with other adults
- if you are in a closed relationship(marriage or dating) you should honor it and not seek out outside partners.
- no non-human animals even consenting ones.
- forced consent is not ok(don't know if this is the right word) like marriage rape or a nurse using disabled patients due having power over them

For having kids these should be limited:
- high risk severe inheritable diseases until genetic cure is permitted or found
- incest. Before direct genetic manipulation becomes available it's used in animal breeding to make genetic traits common(for example cows more milk or muscle) but such experiments on humans are even more clearly not ethical

Completely agree with you.

By "forced consent", do you mean with persuasion or do you mean with blackmailing?

Just one more question, if you don't mind. Do you think the above views are valid reasons to completely never resort to incest, or do you think they are only valid for (highly?!) not recommended?

 

[Mycroft]

The chances of that happening increase, however, if all you have to pass on are recessive genes.

I actually know a woman who has sex with her brother on a regular basis. They were separated at birth, and were reunited in their late 20's. They grew sexually attracted to each other and acted upon it. They always use protection: He a condom, she the pill. They have no plans of ever having children.

Where's the harm?

That's assuming the technology becomes widely available to the public.

It will. Gene-editing isn't expensive.

 

[Jumi]

By "forced consent", do you mean with persuasion or do you mean with blackmailing?

Basically emotional blackmail using a position of trust on someone weak, reliant on you. I see it the same as abuse of a child.

Just one more question, if you don't mind. Do you think the above views are valid reasons to completely never resort to incest, or do you think they are only valid for (highly?!) not recommended?

I think they are good reasons to never recommend it unless a rare exception has happened. The exceptions would be like the example where brother and sister have been married for years without knowing they were separated on birth. I think they had children already. Breaking their family up in that situation would be beyond cruel. I can't think of other reasons, since I've never heard any other cases it sounds just.

 

[Deathbydefault]

What do you think of incest; as in having sex with close relatives like parents and siblings? (rape is not included with this package)

I don't really care either way about it.

For those saying generally sex is always okay as long as there is consent, do you include incest in it too? Would you (emphasis on you) practice it? Do you think it is okay in itself as a practice (I'm asking about your opinion in the practice itself)? If you say it is not okay as a practice in itself, while you believe generally sex is okay as long as consent is there, wouldn't you think there is a conflict?

I've not got the right to tell consenting adults how to live their lives.

Finally, in your definition of incest, do you include cousins or just direct close relatives?

Probably siblings and first cousins, although the actual definition is quite a bit more broad.

Post-finally, I voted "no, it is not".

I didn't vote in the poll because it didn't have an option suiting my position.

 

[Baladas]

As a couple of others have said, it's not really any of my business, and I don't think that the government should have a say in people's sex lives.
So long as everything is consensual, I mind my own business...I would advise contraception if I knew anyone with such a relationship though.