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Income Inequality.

Kfox

Well-Known Member
With income inequality and wealth inequality the question of opportunity or outcome is meaningless.
It is mostly a case of outcome inequality when a CEO gets paid hundreds of times more than a worker. You could argue that the worker had the opportunity to become a CEO. But that doesn't take into account that a corporation only needs one CEO and thousands of workers, that the CEO most probably had rich parents who paid his way through college and that you most probably don't become CEO without connections.
The real question is whether the work of the CEO is worth so much more, i.e. if it is a fair pay.
Who do you think should decide if the work of the CEO is worth so much more than the line worker? The Board of Directors who hires the CEO? Or someone else.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
To the question of equal opportunity I have made an OP 3 years ago. Tax the Dead!
Are you for equal opportunity?
The problem with your idea is the government needs taxes paid via money, not wealth. The super rich have very little money, but an awful lot of wealth. The problem with wealth is trying to spend it without destroying something. Take Musk for example; his wealth is the result of owning 15% of Tesla stock. If he were to give all that stock to the Government when he dies, how is the Government supposed to cash all of that stock in without destroying the company?
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
- Well if you're a moral relativist, than no reason at all.
- But if you have any values or morals, I would think you could easily come up with a list of problems with excessive income inequality.
I do have values and morals, but I can't come up with a list of problems with excessive income inequality. Can you? If so; let's here it.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
No I didn’t say any of that. A progressive tax system means if the 10 Billionaires own half the country’s wealth, they also pay more than half the taxes; not to mention the jobs created by billionaires. I never said their presence didn’t make a difference, I only said the poor still existed.
Then the situation of the poor on housing and healthcare would have improved. You said the situation for them was the same. I was going by what you stated. You need to clarify between two cases:-
1) Is it more like a Scandinavian country where the rich billionaire people pay taxes which help in maintaining affordable housing and healthcare services for the poor
OR
2) Is it more like North Korea where the rich people close to Kim and his clique have all the money and use it for their own ends without doing anything for the poor people.
Both countries have a few billionaires around. It kind of matters what the billionaires are doing for the society though.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
What do you base this claim on? I don’t recall you saying.
Remember the economic crash of 2006? During that time the super rich lost billions, the rich lost millions, the middle income lost thousands, and the poor lost a trickle (because they didn’t really have anything to lose). During that time the gap between the rich and the poor lessened. then a half dozen years later when the economy rebounded, the super rich got their billions back, the rich got their millions back, the middle income got their thousands back, the the poor got their trickle back. At this point the gap between the rich and the poor went back to record levels again. This has been the case with every economic rise and fall as of late. Now I couldn’t care less the rich, my concern is with the poor so the question becomes when were the poor better off; with their trickle? Or without it. I think the poor were better off with their trickle even if it means the super rich makes billions in the process.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
Wealth is created by the rich?
Hmm...that's true in some cases I guess. Why do you think it's true in any holistic sense?
I'm not say all wealth, or even most wealth is created by the super rich, I'm saying in most cases the super rich get that way be creating wealth and keeping most of it for themselves.
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
Okay...make the argument then...
I remember years ago, if you wanted to sell something, you paid to put an ad in Little Nickel ad. today they’ve got Craigslist and other sites where you can advertise for free. How many people are able to make money when advertising is free? Think of how many people make money from making youtube videos? There are lots of ways of making money today that they could not years ago.
Consider a lady named Lisa. Lisa is very good at making sandwiches, but she is not good at running a business. So she makes a deal with a local franchise restaurant owner who is not allowed to sell the type of sandwiches Lisa is good at making due to franchise regulations; and they work out a deal where for a percentage of her sales Lisa can buy supplies, store them in the franchise owner’s refrigerator, she can use his grills, ovens, and equipment to cook her food, and she can only sell her sandwiches through “door-dash”. If it wasn’t for door-dash, Lisa would not have a business but now she makes money she would have never made before, and who knows; some day she might get good at running business, and might open up her own place and go up from there!
All I’m saying is there is much more opportunity to make money today than there was yesterday
 

Kfox

Well-Known Member
Then the situation of the poor on housing and healthcare would have improved. You said the situation for them was the same. I was going by what you stated.
No, I said the poorest still don't have adequate housing, and health care. I never said if there were less poor or not, I only commented on the poorest.
 

RestlessSoul

Well-Known Member
Perhaps it is disgusting that the more resources you have available to you the more freedom you have. However that is how it works whether I like it or not.



If that makes them happy, to acquire material stuff why does that bother you? What happen to "to each their own".

If people feel acquiring stuff makes them happy, why do you got to go sour grapes on them? Why can't you go about doing what makes you happy and let them go about doing what makes them happy? Do you want their stuff? If not, can't you find ways to be happy without it?

Why not worry about your own happiness and let other folks worry about theirs.

Humanity’s desire to “acquire stuff” beyond their needs, is placing intolerable pressure on the earth’s limited resources.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
No, I said the poorest still don't have adequate housing, and health care. I never said if there were less poor or not, I only commented on the poorest.
If the situation for the poor have improved from what it was before, then of course having the billionaires is a good thing.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Humanity’s desire to “acquire stuff” beyond their needs, is placing intolerable pressure on the earth’s limited resources.

A number of rich folks agree with you. That is why they are using their wealth to support space exploration so we can start seeking resources beyond earth.
 

Hermit Philosopher

Selflessly here for you
Remember the economic crash of 2006? During that time the super rich lost billions, the rich lost millions, the middle income lost thousands, and the poor lost a trickle (because they didn’t really have anything to lose). During that time the gap between the rich and the poor lessened. then a half dozen years later when the economy rebounded, the super rich got their billions back, the rich got their millions back, the middle income got their thousands back, the the poor got their trickle back. At this point the gap between the rich and the poor went back to record levels again. This has been the case with every economic rise and fall as of late. Now I couldn’t care less the rich, my concern is with the poor so the question becomes when were the poor better off; with their trickle? Or without it. I think the poor were better off with their trickle even if it means the super rich makes billions in the process.
Yes. There’s nothing strange about what you say here, because what you are saying is that when the economy is bad, it affects everyone - including the poor.

However, in no way does that mean that inequality is good.

Humbly,
Hermit
 

mikkel_the_dane

My own religion
Remember the economic crash of 2006? During that time the super rich lost billions, the rich lost millions, the middle income lost thousands, and the poor lost a trickle (because they didn’t really have anything to lose). During that time the gap between the rich and the poor lessened. then a half dozen years later when the economy rebounded, the super rich got their billions back, the rich got their millions back, the middle income got their thousands back, the the poor got their trickle back. At this point the gap between the rich and the poor went back to record levels again. This has been the case with every economic rise and fall as of late. Now I couldn’t care less the rich, my concern is with the poor so the question becomes when were the poor better off; with their trickle? Or without it. I think the poor were better off with their trickle even if it means the super rich makes billions in the process.

I would like an actual account of that with numbers and procentages and not just your word for it.
 
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