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Incoporating Toaism?

Master Vigil

Master Vigil

Well-Known Member
An important thing to consider is Lao Tzu's 3 jewels. My footer picture is actually the chinese script from the Tao Te Ching. They are Compassion, Simplicity, and Humility. The chinese translation for humility used in the Tao Te Ching is not putting yourself before others.

These 3 jewels, if kept, can help you in your taoist life.
 
zenzero

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend MV,

These 3 jewels, if kept, can help you in your taoist life.

Sorry, that is what has happened with all religions.
Practices have become DEAD just symbolic like even if one dopes not understand do it like keeping this picture and one becomes THAT!

No, friend without understanding and practice; nothing can be understood or achieved.

Love & rgds
 
ChrisP

ChrisP

Veteran Member
IMO Everything and Everyone is Tao, and so therefore everything is taoist. Whether or not there is realisation of this is not important and, again only in my opinion, we are better off not realising this.
 
zenzero

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend ChrisP,

Agree with that.
BUT, how could one be happy through ignorance?
Would guess that innocence is not the same as ignorance?

Love & rgds
 
ChrisP

ChrisP

Veteran Member
zenzero said:
Friend ChrisP,

Agree with that.
BUT, how could one be happy through ignorance?
Would guess that innocence is not the same as ignorance?

Love & rgds
Click to expand...
Hey Zenzero. As always you are remarkably polite, I appreciate that :) Thank you.

To your first point, ignorance is bliss is an idiom used in all English speaking countries I know of, and is a real truth. The pursuit of knowledge has it's root in one form or another in desire. Desire numbs the perception and the senses according to the Tao te Ching. In my own experience I have to agree with it's sentiments in this regard.

Regarding your second point, ignorance and innocence are not the same thing, I agree (if you are stating that and not posing a question?). Innocence is lost in relativity to the loss of ignorance (or the accumulation of experiences and knowledge.) However much innocence can be relearned through emptying oneself, ignorance, once shed, stays shed.

Man, that's flowery. Sorry about that.
 
WayFarer

WayFarer

Rogue Scholar
ChrisP said:
To your first point, ignorance is bliss is an idiom used in all English speaking countries I know of, and is a real truth. The pursuit of knowledge has it's root in one form or another in desire. Desire numbs the perception and the senses according to the Tao te Ching. In my own experience I have to agree with it's sentiments in this regard.

Regarding your second point, ignorance and innocence are not the same thing, I agree (if you are stating that and not posing a question?). Innocence is lost in relativity to the loss of ignorance (or the accumulation of experiences and knowledge.) However much innocence can be relearned through emptying oneself, ignorance, once shed, stays shed.

Man, that's flowery. Sorry about that.
Click to expand...

"Ignorance is bliss" is of those quotes that started out meaning something else. It comes from poem written in 1742 by the English poet Gray.

".Yet ah! why should they know their fate?
Since sorrow never comes too late,
And happiness too swiftly flies.
Thought would destroy their paradise.
No more; where ignorance is bliss,
'Tis folly to be wise."

​
The knowledge of which he speaks is that of a person's future or fate. He basically says if you know what will happen tomorrow you may not enjoy today. That form of thinking is a very Taoist (and Zen and others) line of thought.

If that line of thinking (that ignorance is bliss)is traced back in western civilization a bit further it could be lain at the feet of Ecclesiastes 1:18.

"For in much wisdom is much grief:
and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow."KJV

This is the situation that Siddhārtha Gautama found himself in when he left his palace and saw his first glimpse of the world from beyond its walls. He increased his knowledge and in that found great sorrow. However he did not let that sorrow hold him back. He grew and overcame and as a result the world has the additional wisdom of Buddhism and the enlightenment it offers.

However even here that is not the end of the story, just a portion of it. Here Ecclesiastes is speaking of worldly knowledge and gain without spiritual pursuits and that the sorrows of the world can be remedied through spiritual focus and application in ones life.

I hope this knowledge does not bring anyone sorrow, but instead fortitude and enlightenment.

​
 
zenzero

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend ChrishP,

Well was just trying to point that *ignorance* to personal understanding is *not knowing*.
Not knowing something cannot bring happiness be bliss; One first has to know and know so deep that the knowledge is transcended is what It is about.
Innocence is what even Jesus spoke about; be child like to enter heaven.
Someone says, "I will shoot you" one knows what it means and also knows that there is nothing as *death* and so remains innocent about it without any reaction. Similarly *ignorance* is when one does not know what to shoot means being ignorant which personally understand as akin to *foolishness* or *un-knowledgeable*.

Love & rgds
 
zenzero

zenzero

Its only a Label
Friend benjaminvende,

can you precise your mind spirit por favor
Click to expand...

Sorry could not understand it properly' could you clarify the sentence or anyone else who can?

Love & rgds
 
Alceste

Alceste

Vagabond
xkatz said:
I am very interested in Toaism. I agree with Loa Tzu's philosohpy and ideas. I have been reading the Toa Te Ching. I am wondering though how do I go about incorporating it into my life? Is just believing enough?
Click to expand...

No, "believing" is a hindrance. :) The "uncarved block" or the "empty vessel" represents the Taoist ideal - an empty space that can be filled and drained from one moment to the next, or a block of raw material that can be shaped into any useful form. A belief is a carving on the block - a pebble in the vessel - it prevents you from attaining the ideal of limitless adaptability to external circumstances.

When you are done with Lao Tzu, read Zhuangzi. This is the second best-known book of Taoist philosophy and read by anyone serious about understanding it.

Taoism has produced a massive range of practices that can be incorporated into your life, depending on your nature. The most widespread are tai chi (a martial art) and qigong (a healing art). Seek out Yang or Chen style tai chi and avoid "Taoist tai chi" or any tai chi school where the style is not specified. There are a lot of charlatans about hawking stripped down, new age versions of tai chi. You'd get as much or more out of keeping your money and just waving your arms around randomly in your spare time.

For divination, Taoists use the I Ching. I'm enjoying Deng Ming-Dao's translation, personally. Then there is acupuncture, Traditional Chinese Medicine, calligraphy, Daoist meditation, feng shui, religious rituals, gods and demons, magical pracices... basically, something for everyone.

Here are some other books you might enjoy:

Seven Taoist Masters (Eva Wong)
Scholar Warrior, Chronicles of Tao and / or 365 Tao (Deng Ming-Dao)
In Love With Everything (Raymond Sigrist)
Wandering on the Way (Victor Mair)
The Great Stillness, the Water Method of Taoist Meditation (Bruce Frantzits)

Eastern religions are nothing like Western religions - belief is meaningless. Taoism is a practice - an activity that you engage in throughout your daily life. Like Yoda says, "Do or do not do - there is no try". If you immerse yourself in this stuff (study Taoist literature and take up some kind of practice like Tai Chi or Taoist meditation) it will simply become a part of who you are, helping you more freely express your own nature and engage more fully with the strange and wondrous experience of consciousness.
 
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