Indian Gurus get a peer review system

[ajay0]

Fraudsters should be dealt in the same way a quack in medicine is dealt with.

Peer review by qualified people or groups is the key to identify fraudsters and create awareness in the public about them so that they will not fall for their antics and nonsense.

 

[Valjean]

This that you are calling sainthood... are there other words for it?

Maybe Left temporal status epilepticus?

Yes, material assets rule out a sadhu because Maya is too strong. A person with enlightenment would not hold to money.

But what does Maya have to do with an enlightened sadhu? Isn't enlightenment a transcendence of Maya?
As for money, why would a jivanmukti care one way or another about it? He's awakened from the dream; he perceives the world, including wealth, as just a dream. He no longer dwells in the material world.

 

[LuisDantas]

Maybe Left temporal status epilepticus?

I was thinking about something in Sanskrit or Hindi.

 

[DeviChaaya]

Maybe Left temporal status epilepticus?
But what does Maya have to do with an enlightened sadhu? Isn't enlightenment a transcendence of Maya?
As for money, why would a jivanmukti care one way or another about it? He's awakened from the dream; he perceives the world, including wealth, as just a dream. He no longer dwells in the material world.

When a person becomes a sadhu it is very different to taking sanyas or becoming a brahmacari. A person initiated into a renounciant order is, in India, considered legally dead. The legally dead cannot accept cash or goods, can they? They're dead, after all, and what dead money needs material things?

Many of these famous gurus don't even claim to be sadhus but they're still riding on the backs of these orders, ESPECIALLY Nithyananda who claims still to be the next head of the Mahanirvani peetham. I wonder if he would actually have to become a sadhu of the order to manage it? I cannot imagine him giving up all his women and gold.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I was thinking about something in Sanskrit or Hindi.

Vama Pantha?

But what does Maya have to do with an enlightened sadhu? Isn't enlightenment a transcendence of Maya?
As for money, why would a jivanmukti care one way or another about it? He's awakened from the dream; he perceives the world, including wealth, as just a dream. He no longer dwells in the material world.

You mean like King Janaka? But then why are these gurus involved in sex scandals? And if you say that for a Jivan Mukta, even a sex scandal is not a problem, then it is LHP. Perfectly OK for the individuals but not for the society. Normally such people were shunted out of the cities and made to live in forests with no contact with the society. If one wants to live in a society, then one must follow the rules of the society. Hinduism did not prohibit it. An example is wanting to live in nude. OK, do that, but don't do it in the society.

 

[Valjean]

Vama Pantha?You mean like King Janaka? But then why are these gurus involved in sex scandals? And if you say that for a Jivan Mukta, even a sex scandal is not a problem, then it is LHP. Perfectly OK for the individuals but not for the society. Normally such people were shunted out of the cities and made to live in forests with no contact with the society. If one wants to live in a society, then one must follow the rules of the society. Hinduism did not prohibit it. An example is wanting to live in nude. OK, do that, but don't do it in the society.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that many of these sadhus aren't phoney, or that lifestyle can't be a clue to personality. I'm just wondering how competent these proposed political committees would be in determining the level of consciousness of some of the less flamboyant of these purported saints.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that many of these sadhus aren't phoney, or that lifestyle can't be a clue to personality. I'm just wondering how competent these proposed political committees would be in determining the level of consciousness of some of the less flamboyant of these purported saints.

It is not a political committee. It is a Hindu religious committee pronouncing its view when they think it is necessary to do so to safe-guard Hinduism and Hindu society.

The Supreme Court will hear Nithiyananda's case in this month. He claimed that he was impotent. The Court ordered a medical examination which has falsified this.
Swami Nithyananda Case: Will Justice Prevail? | NewsClick
Condoms, drugs and secret contracts... the story of why Nithyananda is in trouble

Whether justice prevails or not is a political decision as we have seen in the recent case of Gurmeet Ram Rahim. His ahsram was searched 10 days after the judicial verdict when the court ordered it. Most incriminating evidence was taken out in the first two days itself. His companion, Honeypreet was allowed to board the helicopter taking Gurmeet to jail, though the police had no business to do so. She has since disappeared (she could be clandestinely in jail with him. Note Honeypreet's pink bag, that is something special). A sedition case was imposed on Honeypreet after her disappearance. Gurmeet sent 14 cadavers to a medical college for which there is no record. They say many people have been murdered and buried in his ashram, but this was not checked.
Ram Rahim wanted adopted daughter Honeypreet to stay with him in Rohtak jail

In a democracy like India, political parties cannot overlook the electoral effects of meddling with these Godmen who have a following of millions of people. Asaram was important in Gujarat, Gurmeet is important in Haryana and Nithiyananda is important in Karnataka. (supposed to have a following of 10 million people). BJP won in Haryana with the help of Gurmeet.

Gurmeet has been indicted. Asaram's case lingers, three of the witnesses of the case have been murdered. Let us see what happens in Nithiyananda's case. I see Rajeev Malhotra defending Nithiyananda which is absolutely wrong. The actress (Ranjitha), whose video with Nithiyananda was on internet is now a resident of his ashram (in house).

 

[Shantanu]

In a very welcome move, the apex body of Indian ascetics is going to institute a system of peer review to weed out false gurus and saints claimants from authentic ones. A list of known fake gurus is to be published regularly and they would be boycotted from holy gatherings and meets. The peer review process will include interviews of the claimants regarding mastery in the particular philosophical, theological or yogic discipline.. looking at financial practices and behavior.

Gurmeet Ram Rahim, Asaram Bapu, Sant Rampal find place on list of 'fake babas' released by apex body of Hindu sadhus

The Akhil Bharatiya Akhara Parishad feels that the title of 'sant' is being misused so it has decided to put in place a mechanism to award this title," Jain said.

The title will be given after evaluating and examining an individual. "The Akhara Parishad will also observe lifestyle of individuals before conferring this title on them," Jain added.

A senior functionary of the Akhara Parishad said that they had also decided that a saint cannot hold cash or have any assets in his name.

"All such things -- assets and cash -- should belong to a trust and should be utilised for the welfare of the people at large," the functionary said.

Jain said that the people should also "cross-check" an individual's credentials before becoming their disciples.

There is a very strong feeling among saints that because of misdeeds of just one or two religious leaders, the entire community was being shown in a bad light, Vishwa Hindu Parishad (VHP) Joint General Secretary Surendra Jain said.

An initial list of fake gurus have been published

1. Asaram Bapu
2. Radhe Maa
3. Sachinand Giri alias Sachin Datta
4. Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh
5. Icchadhari Bhimanand
6. Malkhan Singh
7. Narayan Sai
8. Rampal
9. Acharya Kushmuni
10. Swami Aseemanand
11. Brihaspati Giri
12. Om Namah Shivay Baba
13. Nirmal Baba
14. Om Baba

“We are going to send copies of this list to the Centre, the state governments as well as all the opposition parties with the demand that a strong legislation be brought to check the activities of these self-styled cult leaders,” Giri told reporters.

Hindu seers’ group releases names of 14 ‘fake godmen’; Ram Rahim, Asaram in list

What do you folks think?

It is wrong for the Akhara Parishad to set up this form of scrutiny and castigate people who have a following for whatever reason. That amounts to criticising a devotee for being an adherent of a particular guru and following therefore a particular religion. Hinduisim cannot be controlled and regulated in this way. It does not have a central authority. I am free to carve out whatever brand of Hinduism I am convinced of and preach to whoever it is that wants to listen. Yes I am a guru and I preach through my Blog. Can someone ask the Akhara Parishad if I am fake?

 

[Vinayaka]

It is wrong for the Akhara Parishad to set up this form of scrutiny and castigate people who have a following for whatever reason. That amounts to criticising a devotee for being an adherent of a particular guru and following therefore a particular religion. Hinduisim cannot be controlled and regulated in this way. It does not have a central authority. I am free to carve out whatever brand of Hinduism I am convinced of and preach to whoever it is that wants to listen. Yes I am a guru and I preach through my Blog. Can someone ask the Akhara Parishad if I am fake?

I just can't see it having much affect. The courts of law, on the other hand, do.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hindus generally have full faith in Akhara Parishad pronouncements.

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam,

Augh thank the based kitten Radhe maa is on the list... Really can't stand her (as much as you can't stand Nithyananda, DeviChaaya )

Unfortunately doubt it won't change much, however, this is a really good start in the right direction. It may open ideas and opportunities to make this an efficient tool or system (but am optimistic, guess ?)

Aum namah Shivaya

 

[DeviChaaya]

Vanakkam,

Augh thank the based kitten Radhe maa is on the list... Really can't stand her (as much as you can't stand Nithyananda, DeviChaaya )

Unfortunately doubt it won't change much, however, this is a really good start in the right direction. It may open ideas and opportunities to make this an efficient tool or system (but am optimistic, guess ?)

Aum namah Shivaya

If I knew anything about her I'm sure I'd detest her too. Now if only the Nithyanandis would take 'Nithyananda isn't for me' as a valid response and stop telling me he is the guru I need.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Augh thank the based kitten Radhe maa is on the list... Really can't stand her (as much as you can't stand Nithyananda, DeviChaaya )

She seem to have barely escaped arrest fort-night ago. Be assured, she won't last long.

"Bombay High Court: Strange that cops insist on custody of Radhe Maa, not in-laws accused of domestic violence"
The HC, on August 14, had granted interim relief to Kaur in the form of protection from arrest for a fortnight.
Bombay High Court: Strange that cops insist on custody of Radhe Maa, not in-laws accused of domestic violence
Court rejects Radhe Maa's request to remove her name from domestic violence case

 

[Shantanu]

I just can't see it having much affect. The courts of law, on the other hand, do.

Ultimately the courts have to decide what is lawful according to the Constitution of the State and what is an unlawful act from a guru even with a huge following. This is where religion can come into conflict with secular law on many issues. The maturity of the State is then brought into question. The courts will not interfere unless the law is broken, like on murder, rape, and paedophilia.

 

[ratikala]

Namaskaram Prabhu Ji's

I have thought about this question , some one here has said that maybe even if these gurus are blacklisted people will still follow them , others have suggested that there will be an element of corruption where by fake gurus will not be disclosed ...

I can only think of one solution , that is that we try to understand the minds of those who are attracted to these persons , and that we try to more actively discuss the true qualities of a Guru so that by this positive action we might cause others to personaly reflect , ....

this is the message contained within the Gita , ....

kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ
prapadyante ‘nya-devatāḥ
taṁ taṁ niyamam āsthāya
prakṛtyā niyatāḥ svayā
​

“Those whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.” (Bg. 7.20)
​

likewise here those with material natures are attracted to false gurus because these false gurus exhibit material qualities and offer false promices of a material nature.
​

antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ
tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām
devān deva-yajo yānti
mad-bhaktā yānti mām api
​

“Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.” (Bg. 7.23)​

Similarly those who follow false gurus reep only temporary benifits , ....

the solution here with this question of exposing these imposters is not just to expose them but to educate their would be deciples or followers to teach them the true qualities of a Brahmana and how it is only the truely renounced wo can lead us to a position of grace , only this truely renounced soul can bring us closser to God be that Shiv Ji , Sri Visnu , ...... what ever tradition it hardly matters only the true servant , the renounced Guru can give that blessing of Knowledge ....

also much like when Sri Krsna explains to Arjuna that those who worship the demi gods actualy worship Visnu himself (as he resides in the heart of all beings) , but that they do so in the wrong way , ...the correct way being to worship directly ,

those who worship in this wrong way will eventualy come to knowledge of the true way merely by dint of worshiping , but the path will be ardious with many pitfalls as material nature is very beguiling , ...therefore we need to help these other deciples where ever we can simply by concentrating on discussing the true and virtious qualities of the true Brahmanas rather than concentrating on the sordid activities of the deluded , ....

prey that none be deceived by Maya and that each with a propencity to worship find their way onto a true path ...this is all we can do ....pray _/\_ xxx

 

[Terese]

Namaskaram Prabhu Ji's

I have thought about this question , some one here has said that maybe even if these gurus are blacklisted people will still follow them , others have suggested that there will be an element of corruption where by fake gurus will not be disclosed ...

I can only think of one solution , that is that we try to understand the minds of those who are attracted to these persons , and that we try to more actively discuss the true qualities of a Guru so that by this positive action we might cause others to personaly reflect , ....

this is the message contained within the Gita , ....

kāmais tais tair hṛta-jñānāḥ
prapadyante ‘nya-devatāḥ
taṁ taṁ niyamam āsthāya
prakṛtyā niyatāḥ svayā
​

“Those whose minds are distorted by material desires surrender unto demigods and follow the particular rules and regulations of worship according to their own natures.” (Bg. 7.20)
​

likewise here those with material natures are attracted to false gurus because these false gurus exhibit material qualities and offer false promices of a material nature.
​

antavat tu phalaṁ teṣāṁ
tad bhavaty alpa-medhasām
devān deva-yajo yānti
mad-bhaktā yānti mām api
​

“Men of small intelligence worship the demigods, and their fruits are limited and temporary. Those who worship the demigods go to the planets of the demigods, but My devotees ultimately reach My supreme planet.” (Bg. 7.23)​

Similarly those who follow false gurus reep only temporary benifits , ....

the solution here with this question of exposing these imposters is not just to expose them but to educate their would be deciples or followers to teach them the true qualities of a Brahmana and how it is only the truely renounced wo can lead us to a position of grace , only this truely renounced soul can bring us closser to God be that Shiv Ji , Sri Visnu , ...... what ever tradition it hardly matters only the true servant , the renounced Guru can give that blessing of Knowledge ....

also much like when Sri Krsna explains to Arjuna that those who worship the demi gods actualy worship Visnu himself (as he resides in the heart of all beings) , but that they do so in the wrong way , ...the correct way being to worship directly ,

those who worship in this wrong way will eventualy come to knowledge of the true way merely by dint of worshiping , but the path will be ardious with many pitfalls as material nature is very beguiling , ...therefore we need to help these other deciples where ever we can simply by concentrating on discussing the true and virtious qualities of the true Brahmanas rather than concentrating on the sordid activities of the deluded , ....

prey that none be deceived by Maya and that each with a propencity to worship find their way onto a true path ...this is all we can do ....pray _/\_ xxx

It's wonderful to see you back, Ratikala ji