Inherent worth for everyone?

[Kungfuzed]

We covenant to affirm and promote the inherent worth and dignity of every person.

Is it really true that everyone has inherent worth and dignity or is that what UU's are trying to give to everyone? I think a lot of people don't feel they are worth much. Many people are stuck in situations that aren't very dignified. Does everyone already have this worth and dignity or is UU trying to raise everyone to that level? The statement doesn't seem to quantify how much dignity and worth of a person. Are some people worth more than others?

 

[Rolling_Stone]

The difficulty is becoming the person we really are.

People today have to a great extent lost the capacity to affirm and believe in any value. Being well liked is central and “be yourself” is an excuse for inclining to the lowest common denominator. We tend to be performers in life rather than persons who live and act as selves. We are cowed into inaction by unconscious fears and anxieties or lose ourselves in whatever cause strikes our fancy. Language has lost its effectiveness: we have an excellent vocabulary for technical subjects, but when it comes to personal relations we are deaf and dumb. As human beings we have our roots the rhythm of a nature no clock can accommodate, but our lives revolve around the belief that the chemistry of our bodies is essentially the same as the elements of dirt and air. Trained over the course centuries with emphasis placed on rationality, uniformity and mechanics, we have repressed those aspects which do not fit those standards.

 

[Dunemeister]

The difficulty is becoming the person we really are.

People today have to a great extent lost the capacity to affirm and believe in any value. Being well liked is central and “be yourself” is an excuse for inclining to the lowest common denominator. We tend to be performers in life rather than persons who live and act as selves. We are cowed into inaction by unconscious fears and anxieties or lose ourselves in whatever cause strikes our fancy. Language has lost its effectiveness: we have an excellent vocabulary for technical subjects, but when it comes to personal relations we are deaf and dumb. As human beings we have our roots the rhythm of a nature no clock can accommodate, but our lives revolve around the belief that the chemistry of our bodies is essentially the same as the elements of dirt and air. Trained over the course centuries with emphasis placed on rationality, uniformity and mechanics, we have repressed those aspects which do not fit those standards.

Amen.

 

[Kungfuzed]

Perhaps I'm confusing inherent worth with perceived worth. It's not always easy to see inherent worth in someone. If worth is inherent then it should be in everyone. Its really a struggle to love my enemy.

 

[Heneni]

An enemy is percieved as such exactly because you sense that they do not believe in your inherent worth.

 

[lilithu]

Is it really true that everyone has inherent worth and dignity or is that what UU's are trying to give to everyone? I think a lot of people don't feel they are worth much. Many people are stuck in situations that aren't very dignified. Does everyone already have this worth and dignity or is UU trying to raise everyone to that level? The statement doesn't seem to quantify how much dignity and worth of a person. Are some people worth more than others?

UUs believe that everyone has inherent worth and dignity. It is the divine spark that dwells within us all. We're not trying to give it to people; people already have it. But we are trying to be better about recognizing it, and to get society to recognize it too.

As for whether it's "really true," it's a faith claim. I believe it to be true. I can't prove it.

 

[lilithu]

Perhaps I'm confusing inherent worth with perceived worth. It's not always easy to see inherent worth in someone. If worth is inherent then it should be in everyone. Its really a struggle to love my enemy.

No confusion. We're talking inherent worth. Yes, it is in everyone, including those you would consider your "enemies." Do you actually have "enemies?"

An enemy is percieved as such exactly because you sense that they do not believe in your inherent worth.

Or you do not believe in theirs.

 

[YmirGF]

Is it really true that everyone has inherent worth and dignity or is that what UU's are trying to give to everyone?

It is my perception that every single being is most worthy otherwise it is unlikely that they would exist.

I think a lot of people don't feel they are worth much. Many people are stuck in situations that aren't very dignified.

Given that there are ditch-diggers who know more about "god" than many whom are regarded as "holy" it would appear that physical "station" is irrelevant when considering worthiness. The idea that many do not feel they have any worth is a result of the peculiar focus of our society, as that worth is all too often equated with financial success. Trust me, I am a smile "billionaire".

Does everyone already have this worth and dignity or is UU trying to raise everyone to that level? The statement doesn't seem to quantify how much dignity and worth of a person. Are some people worth more than others?

I will have to take Lilithu's word for the position of UU's. It seems quite reasonable and harmless. I think what she is implying is the sentiment that if people do not feel any real worth, then perhaps our beliieving in them, in spite of that, just might begin to impact on their thinking. If I believe in you, then perhaps there is something there that the individual should sit back and ponder. Well if, so and so, thinks I have some worth, them maybe, just maybe, I do have some worth, after all. It is a small, but important step on the path to enlightenment. What many do not understand, for example, is they don't feel worthy of enlightenment and so make it some strange creature that is continually out of their grasp. It is a great pity, that that is so.

As to the quantity of worth, that is difficult to say, but as long as one is not too full of themselves and assume their point of view outstrips all others, then their measure of self-worth should be somewhat kept in perspective. Like faith, self-worth should never eclipse reason, because at that point one is sitting atop a very slippery slope.

In regards to the idea that any one person is worth more than another, the answer is no. All are equally representative of the One and none are more important than any around them. It is followers that make individuals important, for example, it is the awed respect of the people that give Queen Elizabeth her majesty. She doesn't actually radiate majesty, she's just a common woman, but people perceive her office and not her person, if you get my drift.

Perhaps I'm confusing inherent worth with perceived worth.

Quite possibly as there is an important difference.

It's not always easy to see inherent worth in someone.

No it isn't easy, to be honest, it is something we have to continually remind ourselves lest we forsake our humanity.

If worth is inherent then it should be in everyone. Its really a struggle to love my enemy.

I understand, but I have befriended my only existing "enemy". Though hardly good friends, we are no longer actively hostile. In rather generous moments, I have actually commented on the fact that he is very clever, not brilliant mind you, but exceedingly clever. My thinking is it is better to have such a person as a friend that as a loathing enemy.

 

[lilithu]

Hi YmirGF.

I will have to take Lilithu's word for the position of UU's. It seems quite reasonable and harmless. I think what she is implying is the sentiment that if people do not feel any real worth, then perhaps our beliieving in them, in spite of that, just might begin to impact on their thinking.

That may be. But what I was thinking was two other things:

1. As UUs, on an interpersonal level, we strive to recognize and remember people's inherent worth because it is so easy for humans to forget and/or deny people's worth.

2. As UUs, on a societal level, we strive to get social systems to recognize people's inherent worth as well. An obvious example would be that the vast majority of UUs are opposed to the death penalty. A less immediately obvious but just as crucial example would be that we generally support things like a living wage, immigrant rights, BGLT rights, etc. All of the social justice work that UUs engage in come directly from our belief in the inherent worth and dignity of every person.

 

[Heneni]

I have come to the realisation, that as long as I dont percieve anyone as my enemy I am free.

Whoever you percieve to be your enemy becomes a possible controlling factor in your life.

If a percieved enemy says something degrading it sets of a roller coaster of emotions that make you act in a way that gives expression to the stirring in your blood. Even if you control the outburst that such feelings might cause, it still means that those feelings were stirred within, and as such the other person has gained control of your inner centre of peace.

That in itself means the other person has gained control over your emotions and feelings, and so it is best to not percieve anyone as an enemy since it could mean they end up controlling your inner man. And any desire to be set free from such a percieved enemy is impossible as long as they have control over your emotions and feelings.

Love
heneni

 

[Kungfuzed]

No confusion. We're talking inherent worth. Yes, it is in everyone, including those you would consider your "enemies." Do you actually have "enemies?"

Not exactly. Maybe adversary is a better word, people who make my life more difficult or stand in the way of my progression. I got a letter from my insurance company telling me I'm likely to be sued by the people I ran into back in January. I don't have any details yet, but I'm still really stressing about it.

Or you do not believe in theirs.

I don't believe in theirs as much as I believe in my own or my family's worth, but maybe I'm confusing worth with love. Is there a difference?

 

[lilithu]

Not exactly. Maybe adversary is a better word, people who make my life more difficult or stand in the way of my progression. I got a letter from my insurance company telling me I'm likely to be sued by the people I ran into back in January. I don't have any details yet, but I'm still really stressing about it.

I am sorry that you're going thru this stressful situation. I didn't know you were in an accident. Aside from the legal stress, are you ok?

I don't believe in theirs as much as I believe in my own or my family's worth, but maybe I'm confusing worth with love. Is there a difference?

Ultimately no. Recognizing everyone's inherent worth is "love thy neighbor as you love yourself." Agape. Interdependency means that there is no real distinction between you and your family and the stranger. But "love thy neighbor" doesn't mean you are a doormat. You can still get angry when the situation warrants you to be angry, and stick up for yourself. It just means that no matter how frustrating other people can be, you always have to keep in mind that they are people, just like you, with their own histories that have led them to where they are now.

And remember, we're talking about ideals here. UUs are just as bad at living up to their ideals as anyone else. But still, this is one of the ideals that we lift up, by which we take spiritual stock of ourselves.

 

[blackout]

I have come to the realisation, that as long as I dont percieve anyone as my enemy I am free.

Whoever you percieve to be your enemy becomes a possible controlling factor in your life.

If a percieved enemy says something degrading it sets of a roller coaster of emotions that make you act in a way that gives expression to the stirring in your blood. Even if you control the outburst that such feelings might cause, it still means that those feelings were stirred within, and as such the other person has gained control of your inner centre of peace.

That in itself means the other person has gained control over your emotions and feelings, and so it is best to not percieve anyone as an enemy since it could mean they end up controlling your inner man. And any desire to be set free from such a percieved enemy is impossible as long as they have control over your emotions and feelings.

Love
heneni

I personally see it as far more pragmatic to recognize one's enemies/adversaries for who they are,
so as to be able to steer clear of their troublemaking
or overcome a situational blockade they have put in your path.

It is quite possible to "thwart" or "walk on thru" a recognized adversary
without ever getting emotional about it.

No more do I want anyone "controling" my inner woman...
than the personal expression of my outer world.

You can even love an adversary and still beat the crap out of their control game.
Wisdom and sensitivity to each unique situation is key.

It must however be done from a state of calm collectedness.
You cannot be the victom AND the victor.

 

[blackout]

Recognizing everyone's inherent worth is "love thy neighbor as you love yourself." Agape. Interdependency means that there is no real distinction between you and your family and the stranger. But "love thy neighbor" doesn't mean you are a doormat. You can still get angry when the situation warrants you to be angry, and stick up for yourself. It just means that no matter how frustrating other people can be, you always have to keep in mind that they are people, just like you, with their own histories that have led them to where they are now.

I have a few thoughts about "loving your neighbor as yourself"...

First off it does no good to love your neighbor as yourself,
if you do not first love yourself.

Now if you DO in fact love yourself with integrity, honesty and freedom
then "do unto your neighbor as you would have them do unto you"
actually does work.

for example...
If I were overstepping my boundaries with another
I would WANT them to put a stop to it.
And so I would do myself to anyone overstepping their boundaries with me.

Also I would say that I most definately am distinct from my family,
and my family is distinct from my neighbors...
and my friends who love and respect me
are distinct from my neighbors who don't.

Every individual is distinctly who they are...
and they each have a distinct role in my life (or not).
All roles IN MY STORY are not equal.
My irrational neighbor is the STAR player in her own story after all.
I prefer she not make cameo appearances in mine.
I currently have no room for disruptive extras.

(this of course is not a judgement of her inherent worth...
just a judgement that her brand of troublmaking is not worth my time and effort.
And I will not "sponsor" it.)

 

[Kungfuzed]

I am sorry that you're going thru this stressful situation. I didn't know you were in an accident. Aside from the legal stress, are you ok?

Physically I'm fine. I've had alot of stress lately. They're starting to lay off people here at work. My school almost denied me to get into clinical courses because of a paperwork oversight. And now this letter from the insurance company. I've decided I need to go to church. I need a support group. I need to make some friends. I have no life whatsoever outside of work and school and this forum. I've talked about it with my wife and we're going to go visit the Unitarian Universalist church up in Wilmington this Sunday. It's been long overdue.

 

[lilithu]

Physically I'm fine. I've had alot of stress lately. They're starting to lay off people here at work. My school almost denied me to get into clinical courses because of a paperwork oversight. And now this letter from the insurance company. I've decided I need to go to church. I need a support group. I need to make some friends. I have no life whatsoever outside of work and school and this forum. I've talked about it with my wife and we're going to go visit the Unitarian Universalist church up in Wilmington this Sunday. It's been long overdue.

Please let me know how it goes, and I do hope your stresses subside soon. :hug:

 

[Rolling_Stone]

There was once a king whose mood would swing from great elation to to great depair. He gathered his wise men together and asked them for help. The next day, they gave the king a ring and told him that when he found himself in one of his moods, he should turn it over and read what it says. For written on both sides of the ring were these few words: This, too, shall pass.

 

[Kungfuzed]

Please let me know how it goes, and I do hope your stresses subside soon. :hug:

My wife and I went to church this morning. The minister had just gotten back from sabbatical where she had gone to Israel and the West Bank and gave a good sermon about it. I think she has a good understanding of the situation over there. Afterwards I took some pamphlets and drank some coffee and got to meet a few of the people there. One thing i didn't expect was that the vast majority of the members there are elderly. I didn't see anyone there my age, but that might not even matter. I'm not there to play basketball.

 

[lilithu]

My wife and I went to church this morning. The minister had just gotten back from sabbatical where she had gone to Israel and the West Bank and gave a good sermon about it. I think she has a good understanding of the situation over there. Afterwards I took some pamphlets and drank some coffee and got to meet a few of the people there. One thing i didn't expect was that the vast majority of the members there are elderly. I didn't see anyone there my age, but that might not even matter. I'm not there to play basketball.

Thanks for letting me know how it went.

UU congregations vary so much that I didn't know what to expect for you any more than you did. It is not uncommon for smaller congregations to be mostly older. These are usually people who joined in the 60s/70s at the height of liberalism, and when society got substantially more conservative, UU congregations shrank, unable to attract a generation of younger, more conservative members. That's turning around tho. Congregations that have good religious education programs for kids also tend to attract more 20 and 30 somethings.

Just out of curiosity (and a little concern), were they nice to you? Did they greet you and make you feel welcome? We tend to be very intellectual and are sometimes not so good on the social skills part.

 

[Kungfuzed]

Just out of curiosity (and a little concern), were they nice to you? Did they greet you and make you feel welcome? We tend to be very intellectual and are sometimes not so good on the social skills part.

Actually you just described me.

It's a very old congregation. One woman I spoke with has been going there for 40 years. They were all very friendly. I was surprised at how many people had name tags on. Many of them invited us to come back. The coffee was better than what I brew at home, but all they had left was decaf by the time I bothered getting any, but still good coffee. When the sermon was over they opened up a room that had a mall bookstore and they had tables lined up where you could sign up for different things going on. They have some program called booster cards that I don't quite understand yet. The choir sung a good commercial for them, much to the surprise of the congregation. They said it wasn't their usual Sunday, but I hope it is. They've elected a new minister who will start some time in August. We thought about checking out the two other UU churches in Newark, but they're having this really interesting looking dialog on the 18th about Science Ethics and Religion. I don't want to miss that.