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Intelligent Design, but is God Smart Enough?

sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
What proof do we have that God does not use "architects of record" and "BIM modelers" to fill in all the details once the basic design is in place? Call these helpers "angels" if you like.
 
idav

idav

Being
Premium Member
Jeremiahcp said:
Talking about Abraham's God: What proof do we have that this god is smart enough to design human life and all of existence?
Click to expand...
If your referring to a concept similar to Romans 1:18-20 it's partly rubbish IMO, maybe even a lot.
 
Misunderstood

Misunderstood

Active Member
Jeremiahcp said:
Talking about Abraham's God: What proof do we have that this god is smart enough to design human life and all of existence?
Click to expand...

Well done a veiled insult; I'll give you an A+ for whom all you have insulted in one sentence.

From what I see you do not even believe in a God, to you He is a fictional character kind of like Superman. So without even knowing even if He exists, you have insulted the whole of heaven and all those who believe in God, saying that God is not even smart enough, so even those who believe are pretty stupid.

But to answer the question: Yes, He is.

For even those who believe he is fictional: Yes, He is. To prove my point, Superman is a fictional character who can leap tall buildings. Not because he is real and can do it, but because the creators of his character says he can. So even in your world where he is a fictional character; believers believe He can so, so He can in their minds.
 
sun rise

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Jeremiahcp said:
So the angels are smarter than God?
Click to expand...
Where did you get that from? "Architect of record" takes the overall design from the master architect and fills in details based on local conditions. "BIM" verification makes sure everything will work properly based on the overall plans and adjusts as necessary. None of them can replace the master designer's grand scheme.
 
Muslim-UK

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The GOD of Abraham pbuh told us the Universe came into being Thousands of years before Scientists were able to agree the same via a majority view in the 21st Century.

The Origins of the Universe

The GOD of Abraham pbuh told us the Universe is expanding, will one day lead to the Big Crunch, both of these statements are largely agreed upon today.

New Study Suggests We're Approaching The 'Big Crunch'

The GOD of Abraham pbuh told us there was something smaller than a Atom, again long before any human was able to verify this fact.

So yes, for these and hundreds of other reasons, the GOD of Abraham pbuh is more than capable of Intelligently Designing ALL living life forms bot in this Galaxy, and the other Galaxies He mentions.
 
siti

siti

Well-Known Member
If the God of Abraham is smart enough to produce intelligent life, why has he not done so?
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
sunrise123 said:
That is not the definition of agnostic which means 'unsure'. It is the definition of atheist.
Click to expand...
Never said it was.

An agnostic doesn't affirm there is a god, (in which case he can't be said to be a deist or theist) and doesn't not affirm there's a god. (in which case he can't be said to be an atheist)



.
 
Last edited:
It Aint Necessarily So

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Muslim-UK said:
The GOD of Abraham pbuh told us the Universe came into being Thousands of years before Scientists were able to agree the same via a majority view in the 21st Century.

The Origins of the Universe

The GOD of Abraham pbuh told us the Universe is expanding, will one day lead to the Big Crunch, both of these statements are largely agreed upon today.

New Study Suggests We're Approaching The 'Big Crunch'

The GOD of Abraham pbuh told us there was something smaller than a Atom, again long before any human was able to verify this fact.

So yes, for these and hundreds of other reasons, the GOD of Abraham pbuh is more than capable of Intelligently Designing ALL living life forms bot in this Galaxy, and the other Galaxies He mentions.
Click to expand...
  • Texas sharpshooter fallacy : "an informal fallacy which is committed when differences in data are ignored, but similarities are stressed. From this reasoning, a false conclusion is inferred."
If one complies a complete list of the claims of science regarding the origin and history of the universe and one listing all of the analogous ideas from the Bible, there would be almost no overlap. If you take the tiny bit of overlap as you have done while ignoring all of the items on one list or the other but not both, you create the false impression that the authors of the scriptures had inexplicable knowledge, when in fact, as the two lists would reveal, they knew almost nothing. Scripture missed the inflationary epoch, symmetry breaking, particle condensation, nucleosynthesis, the decoupling of matter and radiation, the hundreds of millions of years before starlight, the 9 billion year delay before the formation of the sun and earth, the moon creating impact event, the cooling of the earth with crust formation, and the evolution of life.

And assuming Muslims accept the Genesis account of creation, it is replete with claims that science contradicts - the timeline and order of events is antiscientific. From Polymath:

Let's go through what Genesis actually says and compare, shall we?(Polymath)

1) The Earth was without form and void and darkness was on the face of the deep.
a. Notice that the Earth already existed.
b. There was a 'deep'. In the original, it was certainly interpreted as water, but we can allow an interpretation as 'space'. In any case, space and the Earth already exist.

2) Light.
a. This is out of order. Light would have existed LONG before the Earth. The Earth is only 4.5 billion years old, while the universe is about 13.7 billion years. There were stars long before the Earth and they would have emitted light.

3) God divided the light from the darkness. Darkness was called Night and light was called Day. This is the first day.
a. This regards darkness as a substance separate from the substance of light. This is wrong.
b. Night and Day happen because of the rotation of the Earth with respect to the sun. But the sun isn't formed until later. This is out of order.

4) God divided the waters by a firmament, calling the firmament 'heaven'. This is the second day.
a. This makes clear that the 'deep' is actually made of water.
b. No firmament has ever been discovered. So this isn't even in the *actual* order.
c. Your quote mistakes this for the formation of an atmosphere, which is clearly wrong.

5) Dry land, grass, seeded plants, fruit trees.
a. Seeded plants existed LONG before flowering plants (and fruit trees are flowering plants)
b. Grass was even later than flowering plants (since grass is, technically a flowering plant).
c. There would have been sea creatures LONG before land plants.

6) Formation of the Sun and Moon
a. The sun would have actually preceded the Earth. This is badly out of order.
b. The Moon would have formed before land plants. This is also badly out of order.
c. The sun is required for Day and Night. Again, badly out of order.

7) Whales, other sea creatures, and winged fowl.
a. In actuality, birds (winged fowl) existed before grass. Again, out of order.
b. There would have been sea creatures in the oceans before land plants.
c. Whales evolved from land animals. Again, way out of order.
d. The first whales evolved long after birds.

8) Land animals. Specifically cattle and those that 'creepeth' on the Earth.
a. There were land animals way before there were flowering plants or grass. Out of order.
b. Modern cattle came after humans (although other bovines existed before, so this is ambiguous

Now that we have more complete lists of the scriptural and scientific accounts, it's apparent how little the two have in common, which is actually an argument against scriptural prescience, not one for it as you have implied.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Jeremiahcp said:
Talking about Abraham's God: What proof do we have that this god is smart enough to design human life and all of existence?
Click to expand...
so maybe He wasn't....
and it took millions of years of experimentation to 'land' a form that could hold an intelligent spirit
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
It Aint Necessarily So said:
  • Texas sharpshooter fallacy : "an informal fallacy which is committed when differences in data are ignored, but similarities are stressed. From this reasoning, a false conclusion is inferred."
If one complies a complete list of the claims of science regarding the origin and history of the universe and one listing all of the analogous ideas from the Bible, there would be almost no overlap. If you take the tiny bit of overlap as you have done while ignoring all of the items on one list or the other but not both, you create the false impression that the authors of the scriptures had inexplicable knowledge, when in fact, as the two lists would reveal, they knew almost nothing. Scripture missed the inflationary epoch, symmetry breaking, particle condensation, nucleosynthesis, the decoupling of matter and radiation, the hundreds of millions of years before starlight, the 9 billion year delay before the formation of the sun and earth, the moon creating impact event, the cooling of the earth with crust formation, and the evolution of life.

And assuming Muslims accept the Genesis account of creation, it is replete with claims that science contradicts - the timeline and order of events is antiscientific. From Polymath:

Let's go through what Genesis actually says and compare, shall we?(Polymath)

1) The Earth was without form and void and darkness was on the face of the deep.
a. Notice that the Earth already existed.
b. There was a 'deep'. In the original, it was certainly interpreted as water, but we can allow an interpretation as 'space'. In any case, space and the Earth already exist.

2) Light.
a. This is out of order. Light would have existed LONG before the Earth. The Earth is only 4.5 billion years old, while the universe is about 13.7 billion years. There were stars long before the Earth and they would have emitted light.

3) God divided the light from the darkness. Darkness was called Night and light was called Day. This is the first day.
a. This regards darkness as a substance separate from the substance of light. This is wrong.
b. Night and Day happen because of the rotation of the Earth with respect to the sun. But the sun isn't formed until later. This is out of order.

4) God divided the waters by a firmament, calling the firmament 'heaven'. This is the second day.
a. This makes clear that the 'deep' is actually made of water.
b. No firmament has ever been discovered. So this isn't even in the *actual* order.
c. Your quote mistakes this for the formation of an atmosphere, which is clearly wrong.

5) Dry land, grass, seeded plants, fruit trees.
a. Seeded plants existed LONG before flowering plants (and fruit trees are flowering plants)
b. Grass was even later than flowering plants (since grass is, technically a flowering plant).
c. There would have been sea creatures LONG before land plants.

6) Formation of the Sun and Moon
a. The sun would have actually preceded the Earth. This is badly out of order.
b. The Moon would have formed before land plants. This is also badly out of order.
c. The sun is required for Day and Night. Again, badly out of order.

7) Whales, other sea creatures, and winged fowl.
a. In actuality, birds (winged fowl) existed before grass. Again, out of order.
b. There would have been sea creatures in the oceans before land plants.
c. Whales evolved from land animals. Again, way out of order.
d. The first whales evolved long after birds.

8) Land animals. Specifically cattle and those that 'creepeth' on the Earth.
a. There were land animals way before there were flowering plants or grass. Out of order.
b. Modern cattle came after humans (although other bovines existed before, so this is ambiguous

Now that we have more complete lists of the scriptural and scientific accounts, it's apparent how little the two have in common, which is actually an argument against scriptural prescience, not one for it as you have implied.
Click to expand...

when printing (or scripting ) the text.....capitalizing the word earth would be an error

more likely the word refers to substance not yet taking 'form'
as in planetary and solar spheres

formation of of plant life need not happen on this planet.....first

then forming THIS solar system later

try thinking the large photo...that the authors did not possess
they did script what they were told
presuming God and heaven were giving dictation
 
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