So no evidence then, just personal opinion, thought so.
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Intelligent Design, but is God Smart Enough?
- Thread starter Jeremiahcp
- Start date
So no evidence then, just personal opinion, thought so.
Apologes
Active Member
God is a term that is used to describe an omniscient being, whose existence the design inference is used to prove.
It makes little sense to ask how do we know that a being smart enough to design us is smart enough to design us?" as it's simply a part of a concept the word refers to.
It makes little sense to ask how do we know that a being smart enough to design us is smart enough to design us?" as it's simply a part of a concept the word refers to.
QuestioningMind
Well-Known Member
What a silly claim. If in fact they discovered that DNA is twice as complex as we once thought it was, how is that 'evidence' in any way shape or form for an all powerful creator God? Only in the delusional minds of creationists does such a discovery constitute evidence. FIRST you have to supply evidence that supports the notion that there even IS a creator God, THEN you'd have to supply evidence that establishes that it was this creator God that is responsible for the complexity of DNA. Simply stating "This is SO complicated that I can only imagine that GOD DID IT!" is NOT the scientific method.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
There you go then, you've answered your own objection to the Abrahamic GOD not being smart enough to create us. Christian and non Christian Scholars confirm the Bible is largely written by unknown sources, and contains:
Words of wisdom and guidance for mankind.
Tribal writings from men to justify the things you mentioned.
Poetry
History, both accurate and inaccurate
Story of Creation as understood and remembered by those who either directly spoke with Prophets and Messengers, or their subsequent followers, decades/centuries later, thus some things are correct, whilst others reflect the fallible human understanding of the time.
The GOD of Abraham pbuh sent one last piece of revelation for mankind. Here's what He said about the previous Scriptures and those entrusted to look after it:
But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind. From those, too, who call themselves Christians, We did take a covenant, but they forgot a good part of the message that was sent them: so we estranged them, with enmity and hatred between the one and the other, to the day of judgment. And soon will Allah show them what it is they have done. Qur'an 5:13-14
The solution is given in the next verse:
O People of the Scripture, there has come to you Our Messenger making clear to you much of what you used to conceal of the Scripture and overlooking much. There has come to you from Allah a light and a clear Book. Qur'an 5:15
Now you have 2 options, either read the book for yourself and decide on whether its source is from beyond the natural World or not.
Or don't read the book, just visit sites with agendas like answeringmuslims.com or wikiislam and copy and paste their arguments against the Qur'an, which have been refuted time and time again or lastly, (yes there's a final unorthodox method!) You could ask you cat to guide you as it knows if something is from GOD or not
Al-Qur'an al-Kareem - القرآن الكريم
The Abrahamic God not being God, - obviously includes your religion as well.
I have read Tanakh, NT, and the Qur'an. That being which is portrayed, is just plain evil.
All of your religions have continually murdered the innocent, starting thousands of years ago, - for your God.
EVIL!
*
Theists don't say, DNA is complicated, therefore GOD did it! We say, it shows the possibility a Being of Higher Intelligence may be responsible. Leading Atheists and Evolutionist Richard Dawkins agrees and thought it might have been Aliens who, themselves had evolved through a process of natural selection, then saw fit to seed life here on Earth.
Candidates responsible for code written in DNA:
GOD
Aliens
Unknown process.
We have revelation from a being called GOD, who claims responsibility for Creation.
We have no evidence showing Aliens are responsible.
Scientist have been, and continue to attempt to explain the 'unknown' process through a purely naturalistic mechanism. They have so far put forward a few theories, but no observable/testable evidence.
The question was, is the Abrahamic GOD smart enough to be behind Creation. You clearly think not, but haven't put forward the version of God you believe is responsible for it? Or perhaps you have a theory involving no GOD at all?
DennisTate
Active Member
The astonishing level of power implied by String Theory for
Energy from Quantum Vacuum implies that if intelligence first
began in fundamental or nearly fundamental energy........
rather than in carbon based organic matter then.......
fundamental energy intelligence would be able to learn
much more rapidly than we humans do.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
It is true. I have read them, and taken Comparative Religion. I have them on my computer. Multiple translations actually.
It is also true - that this being is created by men, - wanting to murder, - rape, - enslave, - grab other's land, - etc. This is also shown by other patriarchal things spoken of - such as killing, or raping, wives and children - for the crimes of the husband. Owing multiple wives, and sex slaves/concubines, etc.
No God is necessary.
Obviously the Abrahamic idea of God is not capable of anything but the human qualities of the writers.
We obviously have evolution, and science. The Adam and Chav'vah idea is ridiculous. We don't live on a round pancake shape as the Bible tells us we do.
I am Agnostic. It bothers me not - if there is, - or is not, - something called by us, - Divinity.
If there were - it bothers me not - if it was One God, Multiple Gods, We Ourselves, Collective Supreme Consciousness, etc.
But the books of men, with stories of evil beings, being called "God," are NOT about any kind of Deity.
*
Amazing that one of the smartest men who ever lived, Isaac Newton, 'studied the Bible daily' and never reached that conclusion! Are you privy to evidence he didn't have? I'm pretty sure the words he read regarding God's actions, are the same that you've read.
Maybe you're smarter than he was?
Actually, all evidence points to functional and integrated complex designs requiring an intelligent source. Has it been proven otherwise?
I think even Dawkins said it could've been aliens, i.e., an intelligent source. Lol.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You seem to be unaware of Newton's beliefs. He had to keep many of his beliefs "under the table" because in his time one could be punished for heresy. He was not a trinitarian, he did not believe in an immortal soul. He does not appear to be too terribly removed from what atheists believe today:
Religious views of Isaac Newton - Wikipedia
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
You should avoid making posts that tell others how little you understand.
By the way no evidence points to an intelligent source. You simply do not have a clue when it comes to evidence. Would you like to learn?
I know.... my beliefs almost mirror his! Almost.
His beef was with religion, not the Bible.
The Bible really doesn't teach what mainstream Christendom teaches.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So you do not believe in an immortal soul, that is interesting.
No, I don't. The soul dies. Ezekiel 18:4
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So you cherry pick the Bible and do not understand its general principles. More and more interesting. So your soul dies with you. So why do you believe?
And you do realize that quite a few of Newton's beliefs were merely God of the Gaps beliefs, don't you? In other words he appealed to God when he ran into problems that he could not solve.
Did that viewpoint keep him from searching? Nope.
Believing God created everything, doesn't hinder discovery, it never has. In fact, it gives a person extra incentive.... not just to understand how it was made, but also why. for what purpose.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Exactly. Which is why I maintain that "God" is no smarter or dumber than the people who created such a notion.
Mental puppets think only in lockstep with those minds who created it.
Would you accuse Newton of the same, saying he didn't understand?
Please!
You further said: "So your soul dies with you."
Nope. The Bible teaches a person **is** a soul; he doesn't *have* one. Read Genesis 2:7, "....man became a living soul." Man wasn't given a soul; he is one. Hebrew 'nephesh' , translated as 'soul', means "a breathing creature".... it's what we are, not what we have.
Christendom's got it all screwed up.
"So why do you believe?"
Because understanding it correctly, gives it credibility. As Newton discovered. But I'm not as smart as him; he discovered these facts on his own.... I was taught them.