Intelligent Designer

[KKawohl]

Why do people shy away from the concept of connecting an Intelligent Designer with evolution? Is it because of the bad reputation that many religions have created for the ID through their superstitions beliefs that are justifiably looked upon as mere myth by the scientific community? If that is the case, shouldn’t religions strive to promote that truthfulness and rationality in religions are truths that can be substantiated by science or those that can not be proven to be wrong. Spiritual interaction is only possible between spirits. Claims of supernatural acts performed by physical or spiritual beings in the physical universe are not truths.

The Intelligent Designer Proclaims:

I Am The Intelligent Designer.
I did not come from nowhere.
I play no magic tricks on man.
I did not create the earth by casting spells.
I had a humble beginning the same as man;
My beginning was at the dawn of spirituality.
My wisdom grows as more spirits unite
After the cessation of life after much physical strife.
Throughout time I have been named God,
Allah, Jehovah, The Great Spirit, and many more.
I do not judge man for his vanity or naivety
To be the one who claims to please me the most.
I am easy to please. I require very little.
I only want you to do what is best for mankind.
I will bless you and wish you well.
I will inspire your mind and you will
Accomplish the unfathomable.

I require no worship. I need nothing from man.
I am self sufficient. I am spirit.
Develop your spirit wisely, the best that you can.
Live your life for the betterment of man.
Your spirit will soon be with me and then
Together we will see and traverse the universe.
There are many wonders to behold,
Your spirit will soar.
You will partake in all the wisdom
That has been gathered from the beginning of time.
The stars will be your playground.
You can play with the animals,
Be with your loved ones,
Listen to the greatest opera,
Stage or musical performances,
Or you can just relax next to a bubbling brook
And enjoy the scenery.
You feel no pain, despair,
Heartache, or negative emotions.
You are now One with me.
You are with the SPIRITUAL UNITY my child.


My Spiritual Journey

Kurt

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

I like that. Welcome to the Forums, and watch out. This is a tough crowd sometimes.

 

[Tawn]

I agree with the sentiments. Evolution need not contend with ID. Which is why it is crazy for ID'ers to attack evolution. It does not strengthen their case.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I agree with the sentiments. Evolution need not contend with ID. Which is why it is crazy for ID'ers to attack evolution. It does not strengthen their case.

Not quite. Either one stipulates a designed teleological process which is just the opposite of evolution, or one posits a design which cleverly mimics the lack of one. Should one opt for the second approach and suggest that our Designer limited its effort to "first cause", with all else occuring 'naturally', arguments from complexity are rendered moot as ID is rendered superfluous.

 

[Pah]

Throughout time I have been named God,
Allah, Jehovah, The Great Spirit, and many more.

Atributing creation to a spirit does little to escape the difficulty of offering scientif proof of genisus. Whatever it's name, science has been narrowing the area in which this spirit operates or operated.

 

[KKawohl]

Atributing creation to a spirit does little to escape the difficulty of offering scientif proof of genisus. Whatever it's name, science has been narrowing the area in which this spirit operates or operated.

In recent years, we have learned that 95% of the Universe is made of a type of matter or energy that we cannot see nor understand. Gravity may ripple across the Universe in waves, and certain cosmic rays, atomic particles moving at near light speed, possess an energy far greater than that which can be explained by modern physics.

In the Theory of Relativity, the intuitive notion of time as an independent entity is replaced by the concept that space and time are intertwined and inseparable aspects of a four-dimensional universe, which is given the name space-time. Einstein sought unsuccessfully for many years to incorporate the theory into a unified field theory valid also for subatomic and electromagnetic phenomena. This is not feasible because any and all of our scientific data is applicable only to this physical third dimension.

Einstein also said "It seems to me that science not only purifies the religious impulse of the dross of its anthropomorphism but also contributes to a religious spiritualization of our understanding of life" Einstein refutes a personal God, which logic and rationality supports. He also said that God may very well be the energy that is in all matter and energy, that cannot be separated from matter/energy. I submit that what mankind calls God is the pure energy in the fourth dimension, the Progressive and Accumulative Spiritual Intelligence of the universe. Everything in the universe follows the universal laws which separate the physical and the spiritual existence. Energy is power, vigor, liveliness, intensity. It is a measurable quantity, without reference to its nature or source. Energy, or life is a fundamental attribute and function of the universe. Our bodies build up and harness a minute amount of

spiritual energy that is transferred into the spiritual dimension upon our death. Then this spiritual energy is limitless because it lacks resistance and this energy can assimilate as a unity or be separate and individual. It is this spiritual energy that mankind has called God. It is a composition of the spiritual intellect of the universe, of every soul that has passed from the physical universe into the spiritual universe. It can create a spiritual existence of beauty that is beyond the imagination…my spirit has experienced it.

The existence of a fourth dimension is still being vastly debated. If we represent thought and emotion which is not physical, as existing in space, we must then accept the existence of another, a fourth dimension where these processes thrive. Our Mind, Thought, Truth, Intuition, Intelligence, Appreciation and Awareness are all aspects of another dimension.

The universe is the encompassment of ALL (matter, energy, space, time) that exists in a physical, material, tangible or intangible, natural or unnatural state in this third dimension. Our subconscious contains the records of our life's experiences and is composed of consciousness, awareness, thoughts, and emotions. The physical composition is a mass of atoms. Emotion is the energy that drives the physical body. Energy is like electro-magnetic energy, or light. It is carried by photons; it can cross-convert back and forth with solid matter, according to the ratio E=MC2, and when in the energy form, its propagation speed is limited to C, which is the speed of light, approximately 300,000 km/sec.

With the evolution of life forms in the third dimension we can then deduct that the fourth dimension which is also considered the spiritual dimension came about through life in the third dimension. All of what we can presently see of the universe, its billions of stars, the galaxies, and other solar systems with its planets only represent less than 2% of the total existence of the universe. Did Life begin on earth? It is naive of us to assume that throughout the trillions of years past that life has only existed on our small world and therefore the fourth dimension, the spiritual existence came about through mankind.

Kurt

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

It is naive of us to assume that throughout the trillions of years past that life has only existed on our small world and therefore the fourth dimension, the spiritual existence came about through mankind.

This sentence is meaningless.

 

[KKawohl]

Originally Posted by KKawohl

It is naive of us to assume that throughout the trillions of years past that life has only existed on our small world and therefore the fourth dimension, the spiritual existence came about through mankind.

This sentence is meaningless.

In order to intelligently appreciate something there has to be complete truth. Only when the truth behind the concept is known can one accurately judge the concept. Today, over 100 planets are known outside our solar system. There are billions of stars with numerous solar systems. Our knowledge of the universe is in its infancy. The spirit enlightens one in the mysteries of God and the universe.

In order to realistically interpret whether God created man or the beginning of God was the result of the consciousness of the first souls that survived physical death one has to start at the beginning of the universe. Conceptual time is interpreted as being continuous and infinite, having one irreversible dimension. The bonding of the first two righteous souls, the first reasoning entities, God, originated somewhere in the universe, on our earth or on a planet in another solar system, possibly billions of years ago. The bonding of the first two souls created spiritual unity which expanded and progressed, created Cumulative Intelligence, the Intelligent Designer.

Kurt

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In order to intelligently appreciate something there has to be complete truth.

That statement is equally meaningless and fully warrants its affective, diminutive format.

 

[KKawohl]

I agree with the sentiments. Evolution need not contend with ID. Which is why it is crazy for ID'ers to attack evolution. It does not strengthen their case.

We The People of this world hereby proclaim that forthwith we will use common sense in deciding whether to live in peace or die for a cause that history of future generations will wonder why the masses had been brainwashed by superstitions created by man about a God who was misunderstood by the masses of a bygone era.

 

[EnhancedSpirit]

I told you they could be tough. I love the way you are debating this. I too, try to show them so that they will see. Using the 'science' that they put all their faith into. But we can only show them, we cannot make them see.

 

[KKawohl]

Originally Posted by KKawohl In order to intelligently appreciate something there has to be complete truth.

That statement is equally meaningless and fully warrants its affective, diminutive format.

The key point is, In order to "intelligently" appreciate something.

 

[KKawohl]

I told you they could be tough. I love the way you are debating this. I too, try to show them so that they will see. Using the 'science' that they put all their faith into. But we can only show them, we cannot make them see.

I agree. I love your site and your quote, "Of all the different religions I have studied, I have found that every religion is based on truth and spoiled by tradition and opinion".

Namaste,
Kurt

 

[justa_gurl]

... there are a thousand topics here and i'm not sure which to approach first.

" Why do people shy away from the concept of connecting an Intelligent Designer with evolution? "

It is the nature of evolution for things to make small changes over a long period of time. Nature is not moral or immoral but functions in a steady flow in an efficient yet adaptative way according to specific rules. These rules are observable and repeatable, always changing but never deviating and completely without any sort of hierarchical prioritization of it's parts. Upon immediate mention of "God" you suggest to stray from those most basic principles. Religion does what science does not. It affirms knowledge of a metaphysical element in nature, knowledge essential to its entire structure can not be confirmed, agreed upon, or even morally justified by a great many people. It is also knowledge which very often prioritizes people over animals or people over people based solely on these unconfirmed and variable beliefs.

Hypothesizing or theoreorizing that the universe in its vastness was designed intelligently is one thing but Religion doesn't make theories, it makes assertions. It attempts to confirmation knowledge fundamental to its cause while entirely unconfirmed by any natural means. It is a BIG assertion not to mention an extremely dangerous one. Saying one can know God is saying once can understand the nature, attitudes, and motives of a 'force behind all creation'. It is a very presumptuous claim with many pits and turns. Religion can attempt to "strive to promote that truthfulness and rationality" but you must understand that 'what is' and 'what might be' should not be confused and makes for a very dangerous combination. Religion is a moral and spiritual foundation for personal understanding and relation to life, it is NOT a pass to make wild assertions and ethical judgements about the 'will and mind' of the universe in whole. That, i believe is why evolution strays away from the notion of an Intelligent Designer.

"The universe is the encompassment of ALL (matter, energy, space, time) that exists in a physical, material, tangible or intangible, natural or unnatural state in this third dimension. "

The universe is an all encompassing wisdom. I agree. By experience we gain knowledge and based on that knowledge we grow in understanding. But where we have no experience (the mind of God or what lies beyond our phsyical world) we have no knowledge and should therefore avoid making presumptious claims with any sort of false authority.

"Einstein refutes a personal God, which logic and rationality supports. "

A very bold statement. Can you explain to me how logic and rationality does not support the god of Spinoza, Einstein, and Hawking? It seems there are many forms of logic that all and none are always and never correct when beliefs are concerned.

 

[Tawn]

Using the 'science' that they put all their faith into. .

Nice use of scare quotes..
I dont think science requires faith. Science is simply the term for exploring and trying to make sense of the universe. Faith is in fact the antithesis of science. Faith (as I understand it) is believing in the truth of something on baseless grounds. Science is the acceptance that anything is possible - but lets try to find out what is likely.

 

[KKawohl]

Can you explain to me how logic and rationality does not support the god of Spinoza, Einstein, and Hawking? It seems there are many forms of logic that all and none are always and never correct when beliefs are concerned.

Einstein said…."God" may very well be the "energy" that is in all matter and energy, that cannot be separated from matter/energy…."I believe in a Spinoza's God who reveals himself in the harmony of all that exists, but not in a God who concerns himself with the fate and actions of human beings.]. (Spinoza believed the more one studies and understands the universe the better one understands God) …."My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble minds. That deeply emotional conviction of the presence of a superior reasoning power, which is revealed in the incomprehensible universe, forms my idea of God."….."Everyone who is seriously interested in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the universe—a spirit vastly superior to man, and one in the face of which our modest powers must feel humble."…."My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment".

Stephen Hawking stated: Physicists call the river of time a “time line” or “world line.” The time line never stops or vanishes. It may bend into a circle, or may fork, but it cannot suddenly disappear. (Even when we die, the time line of our atoms and molecules keeps right on going.) Hyperspace refers to any space that consists of more than three dimensions. The center of the universe is located in hyperspace, off the surface of the universe. Therefore the center of the universe does not exist in our three-dimensional universe at all. Now assume that our universe is expanding. The center of expansion does not exist in our universe. You cannot point a finger north, east, south, west, up, or down, and point to the center of the expansion. The universe is expanding in hyperspace. What is the universe expanding into? The answer: It is expanding in the fourth dimension, hyperspace, which is not visible, and exists off the surface of our hyper-bubble. In other words, hyperspace does not exist in our universe at all.

I submit that God is the pure energy, the spiritual intellect in the spiritual existence, the fourth dimension, consisting of a unity of souls of all who have lived righteously. Physical contact with the spiritual existence is an impossibility but wherefrom our spirit can receive inspiration and blessings to accomplish the seemingly impossible.

Please see http://transcendentalists.org

Namaste,
Kurt

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I submit that God is the pure energy, the spiritual intellect in the spiritual existence, the fourth dimension, consisting of a unity of souls of all who have lived righteously.

Submit what you wish. It remains unfounded and cognitively meaningless.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The universe is an all encompassing wisdom. I agree.

With what? The statement doesn't even rise to the level of reificaton fallacy.

 

[Pah]

It's a long post you made in reply to my comment.

You started off by exploring some science which, frankly, is not in accordance with the state of scientific knowledge. Perhaps it is trivial to you expansion, perhaps not. Einstein's failure was to incorporate gravity into a unified theory and he failed to account for the effects of Quantum Theory. That particular branch of science puts a limit on dimensions in accordance with the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. There was a failure in science to combine the Quatum Theroy with Einsteins Relativity. That is, until the introduction of the developing theory of strings. String theory is best explained as working within 10 dimensions, none of which contain God.

I don't believe there is an equation that describes spiritual energy; there is no transposition between scientific and spiritual energy.. What you have given us is analagy and folded it it back into the science of dimensions. Spiritual matters can not be understood by science. There is not even a direct link between observation of behaviour and spirit. It is only supposition that spirit plays a role in physical expression because other causes are just as accountible, if not more so, for religious theory.

 

[Prima]

Why do people shy away from the concept of connecting an Intelligent Designer with evolution?

I'd like to get to that first question, since this debate has kind of ignored it...I think that you're right that people in general 'shy away' from this idea (the people on this forum being obvious exceptions, having usually at least addressed the idea)

I think this is because the loudest voices are those of the extremes. You have the Christian fundamentalists yelling out their views, and those who believe the universe was created without God yelling out their views, and those who believe anything in between are pretty drowned out.

Also, the idea of separation of church and state has encouraged this separation of thought. Science and education are generally connected with the state/government, and the religious view is supposed to stay separate.