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Interest in Judaism "to feel closer to Jesus"
- Thread starter Karolina
- Start date
rosends
Well-Known Member
It takes 2 forms in my experience
1. Interest in superficial aspects of Judaism which reduces Judaism based on the misconceptions help by the Christian
2. So much interest in the depths of Judaism in an attempt to coopt Judaism and claim a reconciliation between the divergent theologies
1. Interest in superficial aspects of Judaism which reduces Judaism based on the misconceptions help by the Christian
2. So much interest in the depths of Judaism in an attempt to coopt Judaism and claim a reconciliation between the divergent theologies
RabbiO
הרב יונה בן זכריה
Are you asking about whatever interest you might have in Judaism or are you asking about any one of several groups, such as those within the self described Hebraic Roots movement?
Ehav4Ever
Well-Known Member
I have come across a number of people who attempted this and then they [said people] left all forms of Chritianity i.e. jesus beleive. I have also come across some people who did this and went so far off the deep end that things didn't work out well for them at all.
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Speaking entirely for myself... If you want to feel "closer to Jesus" then that's between you and Jesus. Please don't take offense, but Jesus has got nothing to do with me and mine. I acknowledge that Jesus was a good man, but he's not my man and his followers throughout history have not been my people.
Edited to add: After reading @Rival's post below, I wish to revise what I wrote here regarding my statement "Jesus has nothing to do with me and mine" (which was based on the Christian belief that Jesus was the Messiah). I agree with Rival's statement regarding: "If one sticks to scholarly understanding I see no issue."
I think, though, that an issue arises when some who pursue a "scholarly understanding" of Jesus' relationship with Judaism do so as a means to convince Jews that they ought to be Christians.
Edited to add: After reading @Rival's post below, I wish to revise what I wrote here regarding my statement "Jesus has nothing to do with me and mine" (which was based on the Christian belief that Jesus was the Messiah). I agree with Rival's statement regarding: "If one sticks to scholarly understanding I see no issue."
I think, though, that an issue arises when some who pursue a "scholarly understanding" of Jesus' relationship with Judaism do so as a means to convince Jews that they ought to be Christians.
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Sand Dancer
Currently catless
I am not Jewish, but Jesus was, so not a bad thing to learn about. You don't have to see him as savior to learn from him. Actually it might be a hindrance to see him as savior.
dybmh
ויהי מבדיל בין מים למים
Cultural appropiration? A non-Jew wanting to emulate Jesus and role-play as a Jew? yes, that's super annoying to me.
The NT cannot really be understood without an in-depth understanding of Judaism and Jewish practices; one cannot understand much of what Jesus is saying in context without this information. A few examples:
- Mention of 'corban'.
- Utensil washing practices.
- Why Jesus was upset at the state of the Temple.
- Why John the Baptist was angry at Herod.
- Arguments over healing on Shabbat.
- Understanding the significance of Pesach in the 1st century ce.
- Understanding Jewish uses of the scriptures, their interpretations etc.
- Concept of the Messiah.
- The significance of the history of the Hasmonean predecessors and the Maccabean era.
- The issue Peter and Paul have over whether to eat with non-Jews.
- The issue of whether non-Jewish Jesus believers need to become Jews first (this was probably the biggest issue in the 1st century).
- Understanding pretty much any of John's Gospel, the wedding theme, the water of life theme, the different timing of Jesus' death to coincide with the lamb slaughter.
These are the few I can think of off the top of my head but there are many more. One can't simply understand all of these by reading the Tanak since many are from the Oral Torah. Much of the NT has only really been well understood (apart from in the Patristic Age) in the Modern Era because of Jewish interest in the NT and Christian interest in the roots of the NT in 1st c. Judaism. If one sticks to scholarly understanding I see no issue.
- Mention of 'corban'.
- Utensil washing practices.
- Why Jesus was upset at the state of the Temple.
- Why John the Baptist was angry at Herod.
- Arguments over healing on Shabbat.
- Understanding the significance of Pesach in the 1st century ce.
- Understanding Jewish uses of the scriptures, their interpretations etc.
- Concept of the Messiah.
- The significance of the history of the Hasmonean predecessors and the Maccabean era.
- The issue Peter and Paul have over whether to eat with non-Jews.
- The issue of whether non-Jewish Jesus believers need to become Jews first (this was probably the biggest issue in the 1st century).
- Understanding pretty much any of John's Gospel, the wedding theme, the water of life theme, the different timing of Jesus' death to coincide with the lamb slaughter.
These are the few I can think of off the top of my head but there are many more. One can't simply understand all of these by reading the Tanak since many are from the Oral Torah. Much of the NT has only really been well understood (apart from in the Patristic Age) in the Modern Era because of Jewish interest in the NT and Christian interest in the roots of the NT in 1st c. Judaism. If one sticks to scholarly understanding I see no issue.
Ehav4Ever
Well-Known Member
Let's just put it this way. Bad things happen when Jews get tangled up in Christian matters. Jesus is a Christian matter, so it is better for us Jews to just stay out out of any issue that involves that matter. We have more pressing matters to attend to.
RestlessSoul
Well-Known Member
Let's just put it this way. Bad things happen when Jews get tangled up in Christian matters. Jesus is a Christian matter, so it is better for us Jews to just stay out out of any issue that involves that matter. We have more pressing matters to attend to.
Bad things have happened to Jews at the hands of Christians, that’s certainly true. As bad things have happened to black people at the hands of white Europeans. And so on. None of these historic crimes should ever be trivialised. But in an increasingly connected world, we all have to live together. Surely understanding of diverse cultures can only be beneficial in that context?
Many Christians like to feel closer to Jesus by understanding the world he lived and operated in. Seeing him as Jesus the Jewish preacher as well as Jesus the God-Messiah.
Karolina
Member
Good question. I was asking from a personal perspective, for an individual.
Karolina
Member
The first possibility I can totally understand.... would you mind explaining what you mean by the second possibility of things not going well for them?
Karolina
Member
I wondered that, too. The thing that confuses me is the line between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation. That may be a whole other can of worms, though.
Karolina
Member
Yes, it's so true! Every now and then we get a priest/pastor who goes in depth to try to explain the background of the situation, but for the most part, I think Christians just sort of blink, shrug their shoulders, and move on. That sort of surface acceptance doesn't work for me.
Ehav4Ever
Well-Known Member
Here is one story of a young man I once knew of. He grew up in a secular Jewish home, and then became a messianic/jesus beleiver. After that he came into contact with real Torah and he tried to mix the two seperate things together. He at one point thought he was going to restart the ebionite/nazerine jesus beleiving movement. He eventually got what we call here Jerusalem Syndrome and started claiming to be a prophet. The below articles are what happened after that.
U.S. pullout protester dies a week after setting himself alight
Baruch Ben Menachem, a Single 32-year-old Immigrant From the United States Who Set Himself on Fire Last Week in Jerusalem to Protest the Evacuation of Gush Kati
Welcome
Ehav4Ever
Well-Known Member
These two videos may also help. They are in Hebrew, but there are English subtitles in both of them. Note: The first one is not the full conversation but is the core of what was discussed. The Hebrew version is longer and gets into more detail. Also, watch both until the end.
This video details the split between a missionary Christian organization here in Israel and their former leader. You notice the reason for the split and how their former leader claimed that the messianic movements here in Israel like cults. This video is also in Hebrew, but has English subtitles.
Karolina
Member
What I gathered after these two videos is that people convert both ways, cults abound, and also - you can't base your opinion of any group or organization based on the foul behavior of select leaders. I guess the goal was to help steer me away from Messianic Jews in my quest. Mission accomplished, but a lingering question remains, and it probably can't be answered by faithful Jews. What do I do with my desire to follow Jesus but without the layers of legandary edits that have painted him to be anything but a Jewish teacher? Even if one believes in his divinity, it doesn't take away the context of his humanity. I know I'm asking questions that cannot be answered. Yet I try anyway...
Ehav4Ever
Well-Known Member
You are correct. As a Jew and as a person who tries to hold by historical facts, I can't help you with the desire to follow jesus.
You may want to look into the history of what happened to his followers, the Jewish ones, and from there determine what path they followed and where it led them, and their Jewish children/families/etc. IF they even had them.
In reality, your questions can be answered - BUT you may have to do the work to determine if you are searching for a "particular" response or if you are willing to hold by the historical facts where ever they lead you.