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Interested in Makkah- how does it operate?

DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
Before Islam, Mecca was a place for idol worshipping? Doesn't that mean Kabba is an idol.

Peace be on you..Muslims do prostrations [sajdah] during Prayer [Salaat]
sajda%20pix%2075.jpg

Ref:https://www.alislam.org/salaat/07Sajdah.html

This prostrasion is not for earth!

Likewise, facing Ka'ba during Salaat is not worshipping of that building.

Another way to understand it that when Muslims are travelling, and direction to Ka'ba is unknown, they can face any direction. If one is sitting in train or aeroplane, one is tied to seat. Just make intention for Salaat, offer it there.

[if pre Salaat ablution is not possible make tayammum (If a clean dusty surface or a solid surface is available, one should pat the surface with the open palms of both hands, then make a motion with both hands, passing them over the back of each other successively, as if one is washing them, and then pass them over one's face. This is only a token ablution to remind one that whenever possible, proper ablution should be performed.)]



When they stand to start Salaat, they make intention:

""innï wajjahtu wajhiya lilladhï fatarassamäwäti wal-arda hanïfa(n)wwamä anä minal-mushrikïn.""
Translation: I have turned my full attention towards Him, Who has created the heavens and the earth, being ever inclined (towards Him), and I am not among those who associate partners with Allah.

No mention of Ka'ba + cutting any such faintest possiblities by saying about bold words!

According to Ahmadiyya Muslim Promised Messiah Mahdi a.s. (alislam.org), worships are of two types:
i-worship with humbleness
ii-worship with love and sacrifice.

Five daily Salaat / Prayers are worship of humbleness. This worship contains standing before Allah, bowing, prostrating etc. Parallel to each physical posture, soul does the same. Body and soul affects each other, bothways.

Hajj is worship of love and sacrifice. Believers' bodies make circuits of love around Ka'ba, the House of Allah. Similary, in love, their souls are making circuits around Ka'ba. In love, they also kiss blak-stone. Hajj-offerers shave their heads, wear the most simple dress, get consumed in the love of Allah, and move around the House of their beloved Allah....A friend kisses the letter of other friend, likewise is the Muslims' kiss of black-stone. No Muslim worship Ka'ba and seek wishes from black-stone. This arrangement is a physical sample and that is it. Prostration on earth is not FOR earth. Stones cannot give any benefit or cause harm....It is written in interpretations of dreams that if someone kisses black-stone in the dream, it would mean he or she would get spiritual knowledge.




There is the most imporatnt aspect related to this discussion, which is as follows:
Quote Starts
All the major religions of the world invariably began their journey with belief in Unity.......

By the time of Abrahamas, the lofty belief of Noahas in the Unity of God was already degenerated by his distant progeny into the earthly myths of many gods. Abrahamas once again launched a gigantic struggle for the restoration of Unity. It prevailed at last, and the torch of Unity was held aloft by his progeny and others who followed him for many a generation to come.

The old fateful trend of decadence set in eventually with the same disastrous consequences. Within a few hundred years from the time of Abrahamas, the House of Israel reverted to the evil practice of idol worship. This continued until the time of Mosesas. Although Mosesas was an outstanding champion of the cause of Unity among prophets, idolatry kept infiltrating and defiling the faith of his followers during the subsequent centuries. This again proves beyond a shadow of doubt that to move away from Unity is a downhill task. Left to himself, man would always slide down the ladder to the lowly ground of idolatry—a ground which breeds the vermin of superstition and polytheism.

Another example quoted by the Holy Quran is that of 'Baitul Haram' () in Mecca, the House of God built by Abraham as, dedicated only to the cause of His Unity. But alas, it did not take the idols very long to re-enter this illustrious House of God. Except for the name everything else was changed. It was ultimately occupied by no less than three hundred and sixty idols representing each day of the lunar year, filling its chambers from wall to wall. There was room for all of them, but no room for God.

Is this the evolutionary process the sociologists talk so much about? Is this the way they believe idolatry evolved into the idea of a single Supreme Being? Is this how the image of God is ultimately created by man as he advances from his primitive mental state to a more developed one? Nay, certainly not! The history of religions unanimously rejects this arbitrary sociologist conclusion. It clearly demonstrates that belief in the Unity of God always descends from Him. It never ascends to Him through a natural upward spiralling trend of progressive idol worship.

If a transition from many gods to one did ever occur, then the history of religion should have attested to it. But not a trace of it is found in the established history of world religions. Monotheistic societies do slowly degenerate into the polytheistic ones; the opposite never occurs.
Quote Ends
Revelation, Rationality, Knowledge and Truth - Book of Vast Knowledge By Fourth Ahmadiyya Muslim Khalifah (a.r)

Good wishes.
 
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dynavert2012

Active Member
What were Saudi Arabia and Makkah like before Wahabbism?

saudi arabia was just like any other Islamic country, before 1924 it was just a state of the Islamic caliphate "empire", directly before 1924 was part of the Islamic otthmanic caliphate
Is Saudi Arabia the only Wahabbi state or would Taliban Afghanistan and Pakistan be considered too?

wahhabism is belonging to Imam Mohamed abdelwahhab, it wasn't like that before, he rose up against astray Sufism who worship the tombs of dead pious ppl, then an alliance had conducted between his followers and saud and established the saudi state., actually i'm not too sure about that information

I don't know too much about Arabia but I hear Yemen and Iraq had a lot of Jews while UAE,Jordan,Syria,Qatar,Lebanon and Kuwait were more secular.

actually most of Arab state are secular if we don't say all including Egypt and KSA, but Egypt, Jordan, algeria and KSA have some laws related to Islam
Was there ever a united Arabia? In the olden days?

before 1924 all the arabs and most of Islamic states were united under the ottmanic ruling, we were happy of it

Is Wahabbism a branch of Sunni Islam? If so, I assume Qutbism is the next step up in orthodoxy and is 'false' because of those who practise it?

some ppl say it's the same as sunni, but i can see a difference between them related to the rights of the ruler and how to change it and some other issues for example women driving
by the way i'm labeling myself as sunni but i don't follow saudi scholars.
Are Ibadis Sunnis

and Ahmadiyaas Shias?

Ibadis are mostly in oman, and they are not sunni,
Ahmadiyass are not shiaas, both are different sects
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
saudi arabia was just like any other Islamic country, before 1924 it was just a state of the Islamic caliphate "empire", directly before 1924 was part of the Islamic otthmanic caliphate


wahhabism is belonging to Imam Mohamed abdelwahhab, it wasn't like that before, he rose up against astray Sufism who worship the tombs of dead pious ppl, then an alliance had conducted between his followers and saud and established the saudi state., actually i'm not too sure about that information



actually most of Arab state are secular if we don't say all including Egypt and KSA, but Egypt, Jordan, algeria and KSA have some laws related to Islam


before 1924 all the arabs and most of Islamic states were united under the ottmanic ruling, we were happy of it



some ppl say it's the same as sunni, but i can see a difference between them related to the rights of the ruler and how to change it and some other issues for example women driving
by the way i'm labeling myself as sunni but i don't follow saudi scholars.


Ibadis are mostly in oman, and they are not sunni,
Ahmadiyass are not shiaas, both are different sects

What was the Islamic caliphate Empire (not the Ottomans)?

Is KSA the only orthodox Muslim country? Because Iran is but they're Shia and I can't comment on Pakistan/Bangladesh as they're democracies with huge minorities (shrinking mind you)

Jordan,Egypt,Syria and Yemen seem to be strict in varying degrees. The first 3 have large minorities but seem to regularly change their 'warmth' to Israel (i'm surprised by Jordan as they used to be quite chummy with Israel until sharing of the Temple mount became an issue),Yemen and Egypt have huge Al Qaeda bases but Syria has always had issues with its neighbours due to it's government/viewpoint (even without extremist groups)

As for Sufis, are they Sunnis?

I have only ever visited Dubai in 2004 but it's transformed again. I may visit Dubai,Abu Dhabi,Egypt and Jordan but doing 4 in one go is a bit much I assume. May skip UAE (not visited Abu Dhabi)
 

dynavert2012

Active Member
What was the Islamic caliphate Empire (not the Ottomans)?
this video explains the major three Islamic empire
[youtube]18OHntk_bWU[/youtube]
10 Biggest Empires In History - YouTube


Is KSA the only orthodox Muslim country?
Because Iran is but they're Shia and I can't comment on Pakistan/Bangladesh as they're democracies with huge minorities (shrinking mind you)

are you talking about the ruling regime or the majority of people ?

Jordan,Egypt,Syria and Yemen seem to be strict in varying degrees. The first 3 have large minorities but seem to regularly change their 'warmth' to Israel (i'm surprised by Jordan as they used to be quite chummy with Israel until sharing of the Temple mount became an issue),

people never were in warmth with Israel, our agent leaders are still agents for Israel, anyway they are just trying to act as stiff with Israel to avoid people's anger

As for Sufis, are they Sunnis?

some sufis are counted as sunni, they accept the hadith which we accept, and they don't do the wrong things that astray sufis do like praying to temps or asking the death for healing or bringing anything, while majority of sufis are not sunni even if they accept the majority of the sunni hadith as they still doing some astray actions like what i said before
I have only ever visited Dubai in 2004 but it's transformed again. I may visit Dubai,Abu Dhabi,Egypt and Jordan but doing 4 in one go is a bit much I assume. May skip UAE (not visited Abu Dhabi)

you will be welcome anywhere :)
 

ronki23

Well-Known Member
this video explains the major three Islamic empire
[youtube]18OHntk_bWU[/youtube]
10 Biggest Empires In History - YouTube




are you talking about the ruling regime or the majority of people ? both



people never were in warmth with Israel, our agent leaders are still agents for Israel, anyway they are just trying to act as stiff with Israel to avoid people's anger



some sufis are counted as sunni, they accept the hadith which we accept, and they don't do the wrong things that astray sufis do like praying to temps or asking the death for healing or bringing anything, while majority of sufis are not sunni even if they accept the majority of the sunni hadith as they still doing some astray actions like what i said before


you will be welcome anywhere :) but visiting those countries would be quite hard in only one attempt? It's quite hard too as I want to see Israel
.....
 

J2hapydna

Active Member
Sb1995 said:
I see, now is that a historical viewpoint or the belief of muslims? just wondering

There are historical proofs, such as the fact that the Kabba is set up like a Jewish temple, the Arabs are related to Jews and claim descent from Abraham etc
 

dynavert2012

Active Member
The ruling regimes of islamic state are secular including iran, Ksa, pakistan ...
but the ppl are not secular Egyptian, Pakistan, Bangladesh, ksa ,algeria yemen ...

The majority of those ppl are willing to be ruled by islam under the umbrella of caliphate
 
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