Interesting Religious Statistics

[Jaymes]

So someone has to be a member of the National Academy of Sciences to be intelligent?

"Oh, and by the way. If I posted the exact same numbers, but said that they were in reference to atheism and agnosticism, I would have about 30 threads saying how horrable a person I am for doing so."

If you posted the exact same numbers in reference to atheism and agnosticism they'd be untrue. And really, you're overreacting. I understand that you're not seeing what you want to see, but there's no reason to get all paranoid.

"Of course I can't prove that, but I am pretty sure that is what would happen."

Of course you can't prove it... it's just what you want to happen to support your argument.

 

[BUDDY]

So someone has to be a member of the National Academy of Sciences to be intelligent?

"Oh, and by the way. If I posted the exact same numbers, but said that they were in reference to atheism and agnosticism, I would have about 30 threads saying how horrable a person I am for doing so."

If you posted the exact same numbers in reference to atheism and agnosticism they'd be untrue. And really, you're overreacting. I understand that you're not seeing what you want to see, but there's no reason to get all paranoid.

"Of course I can't prove that, but I am pretty sure that is what would happen."

Of course you can't prove it... it's just what you want to happen to support your argument.

Bull crap!! As a Christian, I am obviously not intelligent enough to come up with a more intelligent answer for you.:sarcastic

 

[BUDDY]

If you posted the exact same numbers in reference to atheism and agnosticism they'd be untrue. And really, you're overreacting. I understand that you're not seeing what you want to see, but there's no reason to get all paranoid.

Is it paranoia to recognize a thread that was started in order to state that chriatians are basically unintelligent and more likely to go to jail than non-christians? Is it paranoia to see such an obvious thread disguised under the heading "Interesting Religious Statistic"? I think it is more likely that I can see where this is going, while you either fail to, or choose to ignore it. Either way, it is what it is and I see it the way I see it. It seems rather obvious to me, but I am probably wrong because I am an idiot, simpleton Christian homophobic bigot who don't know nuthin'.....duhhhhhhhh.

 

[painted wolf]

NO one is calling you stupid for being a Christian... the offending remark was removed and by and large people have disagreed with it anyway.
They are interesting RELIGIOUS statistics... they are not interesting ecconomic or political or anyting elce statistics.

Christians have a large number of people in jail because they have large numbers of active recrutement programs in jails. Idealy to teach the criminal the error of his/her ways and to seek a good life when and if they get out.
They also make up the bulk of the population to begin with so the numbers would natually show more of them in jails by sheer odds.

This is the problem with 'naked' statistics. They are too easy to misinterpret.

wa:do

 

[Scuba Pete]

Pseudo Christians have been pushing scientists away for centuries. In an act that is tantamount to tilting at windmills, many many people who claim Christianity, have completely missed the point and and have attacked those who believe in evolution, etc. Satan rejoices when we do this.

IT IS NO WONDER then, that those who believe in evolution feel that Christianity and evolution are mutually exclusive. Since they can easily see the truth in the evidence of evolution, they feel disenfranchised from a religion that has excommunicated them and their ideas in spite of the evidence.

Unfortunately, the belief or non-belief in evolution is a red herring when it comes to the validity of Christianity. It's time that Christians REPENT of their intolerant attitude towards science in general and evolution in particular. Then maybe, we can focus on the REAL message of the cross: LOVE.

That does not mean that we should accept anti-Christian bigotry. Many have no idea how confrontational or hurtful their words and actions are. Such events should exposed as gently as possible and with love. Yes, sometimes we need to use a 2X4 to get their attention, but we can't lose sight of love.

 

[Jaymes]

Bull crap!! As a Christian, I am obviously not intelligent enough to come up with a more intelligent answer for you.:sarcastic

If you want to demean yourself by saying such, go right ahead. It's not helping your case, though.

Is it paranoia to recognize a thread that was started in order to state that chriatians are basically unintelligent and more likely to go to jail than non-christians?

Where does it say Christians are unintelligent? Christians are more likely to go to jail in the US because, hello, they make up the vast majority of the population. It's like saying Muslims are more likely to go to jail in the Middle East.

It seems rather obvious to me, but I am probably wrong because I am an idiot, simpleton Christian homophobic bigot who don't know nuthin'.....duhhhhhhhh.

You're the only one levelling these accusations at yourself.

 

[Pah]

So if I am religious I must not be very intelligent? That's very kind and tolerent of you guys. Thanks, I appreciate the uplifting thought. Oh, and by the way. If I posted the exact same numbers, but said that they were in reference to atheism and agnosticism, I would have about 30 threads saying how horrable a person I am for doing so. Of course I can't prove that, but I am pretty sure that is what would happen.

There is a presumption there that is not borne out in the thread's earlier life. There is no mention of intelligence that I saw and certainly, if mentioned, it is not the main topic of the thread.

The fact that you find offense is regretable. It, in my mind, should be more of a corcern in the same way it is to the various organizations that reported the numbers. Barna has been reporting the trend for years. Nor in any way should the numbers cause you to be offended personally for holding a faith that shows sign of decline. Your personal relationship to your God should not be dependent on a mass acceptance of your faith.

 

[Fluffy]

There is a presumption there that is not borne out in the thread's earlier life. There is no mention of intelligence that I saw and certainly, if mentioned, it is not the main topic of the thread.

Actually intelligence was mentioned in the original post but it was deleted as it was deemed offensive as Rex explains in his post.

Where does it say Christians are unintelligent? Christians are more likely to go to jail in the US because, hello, they make up the vast majority of the population. It's like saying Muslims are more likely to go to jail in the Middle East.

This survey and many more showing that more intelligent people tend not to believe in religion.

Please read the entire thread before disagreeing with another member's comments otherwise you could easily be off factually, as is the case here.

Similarly, EEWRED, the derrogatory statement was deleted as it was seen as offensive. Your assumption that the statistics is an attack on Christianity perhaps reflects more on you than the original poster. Ask yourself why Rex, the founder of a forum which encourages equality and tolerance of other religions and which has a large Christian membership, would wish to intentionally offend his own members?

 

[Original Freak]

Religion is much more important to Americans than to people living in other wealthy nations. Six-in-ten (59%) people in the U.S. say religion plays a very important role in their lives. This is roughly twice the percentage of self-avowed religious people in Canada (30%),

Now where's that 'reasons to live in Canada' thread again?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So if I am religious I must not be very intelligent?

Only if you insist.

If I posted the exact same numbers, but said that they were in reference to atheism and agnosticism, I would have about 30 threads saying how horrable a person I am for doing so.

Only because you would be falsifying the study.

Why not simply tell us what you think the numbers reflect?

 

[BUDDY]

I do not believe that I am either unintelligent or that I will be going to jail. My point in all of this was to try to show how numbers that are not properly explained, or people who do not reasonably research can be offended. I am not personally offended. I am disappointed in the presentation and that, at face value, they would appear to show that atheism is reserved for the more intelligent segment of American society. I do not think that is a reach of simple logic. If you can not find the obvious connection, I would assume that you are not seeing it from a christians point of view. So far, I am correct in that every atheist has seemed to think me overly dramatic for my responses. Each of us react to information in different ways. When a christian says that their evidence points to atheists being condemned to hell, atheists get upset and angry, calling those who would say such things intolerant and biggoted (not that I would say such). When atheists put out numbers saying atheists are more intelligent and better learned, is it too much to expect a similar reaction? Is it not human nature to take offense to such?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What do you think the statistics mean?

 

[BUDDY]

What do you think the statistics mean?

I kow what they are trying to show. BTW, I am refering to the sights about atheism and intelligence, and the one about religion in prison.

Study of 461 students showed religiously conservative students "are, in general, relatively inferior in intellectual ability."



Confirming Howells and Carlson, tested 354 Jewish children, aged 10-16. Found a negative correlation between religiosity and IQ as measured by the Terman intelligence test.



Why does this correlation exist? The first answer that comes to mind is that religious beliefs tend to be more illogical or incoherent than secular beliefs, and intelligent people tend to recognize that more quickly.



Not unexpected as a result. Note that atheists, being a moderate proportion of the USA population (about 8-16%) are disproportionately less in the prison populations (0.21%).



Americans’ (religious) views are closer to people in developing nations than to the publics of developed nations.

 

[stemann]

Yes, sometimes we need to use a 2X4 to get their attention, but we can't lose sight of love.

That's the greatest quote I've ever heard. I think it sums up a lot of religion for me.

Eewred, think about the reason for the statistics. There are more Christians in America, therefore it would seem, as someone pointed out, one could reasonably expect more in prison aswell. Pick any random job you like and, in America, because of the fact that there are more Christians there, there are probably more Christians doing that job than atheists. This does not mean you are going to do that job because you are a Christian.

And for the intelligence thing, it shows that atheists are on average more intelligent than Christians. Statistics aren't there to suggest things. What if Christians were shown to be, on average, more intelligent than atheists? I wouldn't be offended.

When a christian says that their evidence points to atheists being condemned to hell, atheists get upset and angry, calling those who would say such things intolerant and biggoted.

I enjoy being told this as i reply, 'Well my God says YOU are going to hell for siding with that false saviour Jesus Christ' to which I can't remember a valid response.

 

[BUDDY]

I enjoy being told this as i reply, 'Well my God says YOU are going to hell for siding with that false saviour Jesus Christ' to which I can't remember a valid response.

Please note that the example I used did not capitalize the 'c' in Christian. I do ot believe that someone who is a rightly following the teachings of Jesus Christ, as the authority to tell someone that they are going to hell. Just wanted to make that clear.

 

[stemann]

I do ot believe that someone who is a rightly following the teachings of Jesus Christ, as the authority to tell someone that they are going to hell. Just wanted to make that clear.

Ok, but you used it as the counter-example to these statistics, which I feel are not analogous.

 

[BUDDY]

Ok, but you used it as the counter-example to these statistics, which I feel are not analogous.

The analogy is in the reaction to the premise, not to the premise itself. If you don't believe that people react that way, then I suggest you look at other threads on this sight, where those who profess to be christians have said such things, and the replies that followed.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I kow what they are trying to show. BTW, I am refering to the sights about atheism and intelligence, and the one about religion in prison.

My guess is that you're at least intellegent enough to know that you've purposely evaded my question twice. So, again, what do you think the statistics mean?

 

[BUDDY]

My guess is that you're at least intellegent enough to know that you've purposely evaded my question twice. So, again, what do you think the statistics mean?

I think that the numbers given in the first two website links indicate two things to me:

1. That whoever conducted the study was trying to prove that atheists are more intelligent than those who believe in a deity. The author simply lists several differnt studies without going into any details about how the studies where conducted. I choose not to believe the accuracy of the findings because of this.

2. That the majority of those incarcerated are members of some Christian denomination or at least call themselves Christians. When looking at the last line of the study (which I posted earlier) the author chooses to point out that the percentage of atheists incarcerated is much lower than the number of atheists in the national population. He is pointing out that atheists are less likely to end up in jail than are christians, who are more likely to end up in jail. I do believe that the numbers indicate this (it is pretty obvious in fact), but I do not agree with the way in which the statistics are used. He is using them to show that atheism creates a safer society with less crime. Read the rest of the sight.

Does that answer your questions adequately Deut.?

 

[BUDDY]

My guess is that you're at least intellegent enough to know that you've purposely evaded my question twice. So, again, what do you think the statistics mean?

Oh, and as far as the statistics on the decrease in christianity and the increase in humanism and atheism, I have seen these before and some studies like them. There is no dount in my mind that christianity in the US is on a slow but steady decline. I have no problems with these studies. They are conclusive and factual.