Interesting thought about omniscience.

[Revoltingest]

IS Bob the piano teacher amused by the predictable outcome of his lessons? that you become a better piano player? I think he finds joy in your progress yes

That seems such a lame joy/goal for a supreme being.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

That seems such a lame joy/goal for a supreme being.

Do you consider it a lame joy/goal for a parent to want to see progress in their children?

It's love, what greater joy/goal is there?

 

[Demonslayer]

God doesn't love automatons....

I thought God was all-loving? Why he gotta hate on the automatons??

 

[Demonslayer]

Do you consider it a lame joy/goal for a parent to want to see progress in their children?

It's love, what greater joy/goal is there?

I don't think a child's first word would be quite as exciting if you knew exactly what the first word would be and exactly when the child would say it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you consider it a lame joy/goal for a parent to want to see progress in their children?
It's love, what greater joy/goal is there?

These appear to be different relationships.
A god would be intellectually far above us miserable humans.
It would be like Richard Feynman running an ant farm.
They'd have nothing in common.
But children progress into fellow adult humans.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

These appear to be different relationships.
A god would be intellectually far above us miserable humans.
It would be like Richard Feynman running an ant farm.
They'd have nothing in common.
But children progress into fellow adult humans.

We are far above our children at first, though they are made in our image, and we look forward to the day we can know each other.
Our helping close that gap is what makes the relationship special right?

So same with God , just on a far far greater scale.

 

[Revoltingest]

We are far above our children at first, though they are made in our image, and we look forward to the day we can know each other.
Our helping close that gap is what makes the relationship special right?
So same with God , just on a far far greater scale.

Even babies are far above ants.
And we know they'll grow.
But humans never rise above being human.
A supreme being would care so much about his ant farm?
This seems implausible.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Even babies are far above ants.
And we know they'll grow.

and knowing that does not defeat the purpose does it?

But humans never rise above being human.

Perhaps that all depends.

“What no eye has seen, nor ear heard, nor the heart of man imagined, what God has prepared for those who love him”—

 

[idav]

If they had free will, then there could be more than one outcome.
But Bob knows the outcome in advance.
Because Bob cannot be wrong, the outcome he knows is the only possible one.
Free will isn't free if only one of a human's choices is possible.
It is at best the illusion of free will.
So......you may pick free will.....or you may pick Bob being omniscient.
But you cannot pick both.

Maybe gods omniscient cause everything he thinks can happen, does happen, even contradictory scenarios in contradictory universes, if thats what god wanted to do.

 

[Revoltingest]

Maybe gods omniscient cause everything he thinks can happen, does happen, even contradictory scenarios in contradictory universes, if thats what god wanted to do.

Clearly, this god stuff can become quite complicated & murky.
It's so much simpler to not believe!

 

[Dhyana]

God created a world, that still exists today, with no suffering, no challenges, no grief, no evil.. for jellyfish, and hence no joy, love, goodness either. would you trade? me neither..

Would I trade the bliss of nothingness for the suffering, pain and absurdity which is life? Hell yeah. Speaking of hell, life is hell. An amalgam of organisms each of which exists for the sole purpose of perpetuating itself, first, and the species of which it is a part second. And in so doing annihilating other life forms. What a total nightmare. The worst part of which is being a member of the species which is the alpha predator, and which has the self consciousness to know how messed up and frightful the whole thing is. If there IS a God responsible for this hell, all the worse. Better for suffering to be entirely random without meaning than purposeful. And finally if death is not simply the end and nothingness, worse still. Why would anyone want personal existence to be eternal?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Clearly, this god stuff can become quite complicated & murky.
It's so much simpler to not believe!

That's just what opponents of the Big Bang and quantum physics used to say..

 

[Guy Threepwood]

An amalgam of organisms each of which exists for the sole purpose of perpetuating itself, first, and the species of which it is a part second.

If that's how you view life, that's what makes it hell

 

[Revoltingest]

That's just what opponents of the Big Bang and quantum physics used to say..

Aye, those things were hard to understand.
But with persistence, testing, & refinement, they're.....uh.....still hard to understand.
But they become more familiar & useful.
This "god" stuff though.....it lacks testability.
As Pauli said...
"Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"

 

[arthra]

I thought God was all-loving? Why he gotta hate on the automatons??

Do you "love" your toaster?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Aye, those things were hard to understand.
But with persistence, testing, & refinement, they're.....uh.....still hard to understand.
But they become more familiar & useful.
This "god" stuff though.....it lacks testability.
As Pauli said...
"Das ist nicht nur nicht richtig, es ist nicht einmal falsch!"

true, and no analogy is perfect

and we're all kinda in the same untestable boat though are we not, multiverses, M theory, quantum voids?

But in a designed universe there is a logical rationale- for its secrets to be hard but not impossible to understand- to perfectly test us to our limits of curiosity and ingenuity..what better way to have your creation understood and appreciated?

But for an undesigned universe to accidentally achieve the same.. yet another strange coincidence?

If a di keeps rolling winning numbers, that's a test of it's nature, even if we can't prove it's loaded.

 

[Demonslayer]

Do you "love" your toaster?

Not all the time. Sometimes when it burns my english muffin we get in a fight. But we always make up in the end, and make up toast is the best toast.

 

[Revoltingest]

true, and no analogy is perfect

and we're all kinda in the same untestable boat though are we not, multiverses, M theory, quantum voids?

But in a designed universe there is a logical rationale- for its secrets to be hard but not impossible to understand- to perfectly test us to our limits of curiosity and ingenuity..what better way to have your creation understood and appreciated?

But for an undesigned universe to accidentally achieve the same.. yet another strange coincidence?

If a di keeps rolling winning numbers, that's a test of it's nature, even if we can't prove it's loaded.

Alas, I have no truth to offer you.
I am also not even wrong.
Given no objectively verifiable premises from which to deduce the full nature of the universe
or universes, I remain just a simple disbeliever who is ill equipped to tell you you're wrong.

 

[ak.yonathan]

Maybe humans don't have free will after all if everything in this universe is deterministic. However take into account the uncertainty principle of quantum mechanics and it would appear that God is playing dice with the world.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Alas, I have no truth to offer you.
I am also not even wrong.
Given no objectively verifiable premises from which to deduce the full nature of the universe
or universes, I remain just a simple disbeliever who is ill equipped to tell you you're wrong.

Can't say fairer than that!