Interfering with 'another person's faith'?

[nPeace]

When talking to people who have a different type/colour of path or faith, mostly Christianity, I often feel somewhat encumbered by a feeling of trespassing.

For me the historical Jesus was a tantric Master and his teachings were universal, not Christian. His instructions about praying are for me more like detailed instructions about the use of mantra's meant to transform the mind of the disciple in a mystic direction.

In my contact with active Christians I sometimes feel like I must control my tongue in that I cannot be too enthustiastic about 'my' Jesus and His teachings out of fear that they will see me as indirectly criticizing their specific religious way of thinking since they follow more the interpretations of the evangelical authors in the New Testament.

Should you remain silent when your views conflict with another person's faith or should you be bold and accept that this kind rubbing of views is inescapable in the long run?

I believe it's always best to listen to your master, and follow his lead, as long as you use proper judgment in line with principles taught by him. Matthew 15:12-14 ; John 6:35-71 (Reason John 6:25-27, 44) ; Matthew 13:10-16
There are, of course many scriptures, including some from the apostles, but we need to buy out time to read the scriptures daily, so that we repeatedly take in these thing, then as Jesus said, we will gain more... understanding.
For whoever has, more will be given him, and he will be made to abound; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. Matthew 13:12

 

[nPeace]

When talking to people who have a different type/colour of path or faith, mostly Christianity, I often feel somewhat encumbered by a feeling of trespassing.

For me the historical Jesus was a tantric Master and his teachings were universal, not Christian. His instructions about praying are for me more like detailed instructions about the use of mantra's meant to transform the mind of the disciple in a mystic direction.

In my contact with active Christians I sometimes feel like I must control my tongue in that I cannot be too enthustiastic about 'my' Jesus and His teachings out of fear that they will see me as indirectly criticizing their specific religious way of thinking since they follow more the interpretations of the evangelical authors in the New Testament.

Should you remain silent when your views conflict with another person's faith or should you be bold and accept that this kind rubbing of views is inescapable in the long run?

I just want to add, if someone is promoting their faith - they may be doing it in a dogmatic way, or a more serene way, you would still want to follow the guidelines of the master, and follow the example of those who imitated him.
Here are two examples:
Dogmatic - 2 Corinthians 10:3-6
Serene - Acts 18:24-26

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

We all have the right to believe what we believe. But, if you say to me, "why can't I believe what I want to believe?" (in spite of what the facts are)?

Well, then, I have to say that if it doesn't matter what the facts are, then it doesn't matter what the truth is. And though I can't speak for religious people, I can tell you that I do not want to live in a world in which I have no hope of knowing what the truth is.

You have the right to be wrong (as do I), but then I have the right to correct you (and you me) when there is that evidence that shows us to be wrong.

 

[John1.12]

When talking to people who have a different type/colour of path or faith, mostly Christianity, I often feel somewhat encumbered by a feeling of trespassing.

For me the historical Jesus was a tantric Master and his teachings were universal, not Christian. His instructions about praying are for me more like detailed instructions about the use of mantra's meant to transform the mind of the disciple in a mystic direction.

In my contact with active Christians I sometimes feel like I must control my tongue in that I cannot be too enthustiastic about 'my' Jesus and His teachings out of fear that they will see me as indirectly criticizing their specific religious way of thinking since they follow more the interpretations of the evangelical authors in the New Testament.

Should you remain silent when your views conflict with another person's faith or should you be bold and accept that this kind rubbing of views is inescapable in the long run?

Jesus taught his Jewish diciples how to pray a Jewish focused prayer . Its not a prayer that was meant another way to any other people than Jews . The whole point of ' OUR Father ' is ISRAEL .

 

[John1.12]

I just want to add, if someone is promoting their faith - they may be doing it in a dogmatic way, or a more serene way, you would still want to follow the guidelines of the master, and follow the example of those who imitated him.
Here are two examples:
Dogmatic - 2 Corinthians 10:3-6
Serene - Acts 18:24-26

2 cor 10 ( context)
1¶Now I Paul myself beseech you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, who in presence am base among you, but being absent am bold toward you:

2But I beseech you, that I may not be bold when I am present with that confidence, wherewith I think to be bold against some, which think of us as if we walked according to the flesh.

3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:

4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds

5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

6And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

7¶Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? If any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

 

[Marcion]

I was under the impression that Manthras are not supplication.

I stand corrected, they are a mixture of mantra's and higher type supplications.

But asking for spiritual liberation (the Holy Spirit or the Rule of God) is about the only prayer or supplication that is not entirely rejected in Tantra, it is a kind of middle stage leading from Vedism into Tantra.

'Abba, Your Will be Done' is not a real supplication, more of a surrender to or reinforcement that the will of God is present in all your actions and thoughts.
'Abba, Your Name be Hallowed' is also not a real supplication, more of an aknowledgement or reinforcement that God in the form of His loving presence is in everything, that Love is everywhere.

 

[Spirit of Light]

When talking to people who have a different type/colour of path or faith, mostly Christianity, I often feel somewhat encumbered by a feeling of trespassing.

For me the historical Jesus was a tantric Master and his teachings were universal, not Christian. His instructions about praying are for me more like detailed instructions about the use of mantra's meant to transform the mind of the disciple in a mystic direction.

In my contact with active Christians I sometimes feel like I must control my tongue in that I cannot be too enthustiastic about 'my' Jesus and His teachings out of fear that they will see me as indirectly criticizing their specific religious way of thinking since they follow more the interpretations of the evangelical authors in the New Testament.

Should you remain silent when your views conflict with another person's faith or should you be bold and accept that this kind rubbing of views is inescapable in the long run?

Discussion about religious belief can be good, it opens the eyes of those in discussion from time to time (happend to me on multibple occations) But directly telling someone from a different faith or religion they are wrong? No i no longer hold that as a valid way of discussion.
Sometimes i can disagree with what others say, but it still does not make me better or more correct then them, so its better to look within one self and find the truth from within.

 

[John1.12]

Discussion about religious belief can be good, it opens the eyes of those in discussion from time to time (happend to me on multibple occations) But directly telling someone from a different faith or religion they are wrong? No i no longer hold that as a valid way of discussion.
Sometimes i can disagree with what others say, but it still does not make me better or more correct then them, so its better to look within one self and find the truth from within.

To simply just tell someone they are wrong ,without giving reasons ect is not very useful . But if my life ,eternal or otherwise depended on it ,then if the person did not say anything, then that would unloving. We have these dilemmas all the time . A minor version would be with our children. We believe they are wrong, what they believe may lead to danger or harm.

 

[firedragon]

I stand corrected, they are a mixture of mantra's and higher type supplications.

But asking for spiritual liberation (the Holy Spirit or the Rule of God) is about the only prayer or supplication that is not entirely rejected in Tantra, it is a kind of middle stage leading from Vedism into Tantra.

'Abba, Your Will be Done' is not a real supplication, more of a surrender to or reinforcement that the will of God is present in all your actions and thoughts.
'Abba, Your Name be Hallowed' is also not a real supplication, more of an aknowledgement or reinforcement that God in the form of His loving presence is in everything, that Love is everywhere.

Yes. I agree with you.

 

[Wandering Monk]

We all have the right to believe what we believe. But, if you say to me, "why can't I believe what I want to believe?" (in spite of what the facts are)?

Well, then, I have to say that if it doesn't matter what the facts are, then it doesn't matter what the truth is. And though I can't speak for religious people, I can tell you that I do not want to live in a world in which I have no hope of knowing what the truth is.

You have the right to be wrong (as do I), but then I have the right to correct you (and you me) when there is that evidence that shows us to be wrong.

Handy thing about religion: you can make ridiculous assertions without evidence.

 

[Sand Dancer]

When talking to people who have a different type/colour of path or faith, mostly Christianity, I often feel somewhat encumbered by a feeling of trespassing.

For me the historical Jesus was a tantric Master and his teachings were universal, not Christian. His instructions about praying are for me more like detailed instructions about the use of mantra's meant to transform the mind of the disciple in a mystic direction.

In my contact with active Christians I sometimes feel like I must control my tongue in that I cannot be too enthustiastic about 'my' Jesus and His teachings out of fear that they will see me as indirectly criticizing their specific religious way of thinking since they follow more the interpretations of the evangelical authors in the New Testament.

Should you remain silent when your views conflict with another person's faith or should you be bold and accept that this kind rubbing of views is inescapable in the long run?

Jesus called out hypocrites all the time. But then again, that was his job. I don't care what anyone believes, as long as they aren't trying to put it in government or otherwise force or hurt someone.

 

[Spirit of Light]

To simply just tell someone they are wrong ,without giving reasons ect is not very useful . But if my life ,eternal or otherwise depended on it ,then if the person did not say anything, then that would unloving. We have these dilemmas all the time . A minor version would be with our children. We believe they are wrong, what they believe may lead to danger or harm.

As long as i do not have all the answers my self, and still do wrong in life, how can i correct others?

 

[nPeace]

As long as i do not have all the answers my self, and still do wrong in life, how can i correct others?

When you say do wrong in life, if you mean practice sin deliberately, then to correct someone when you are doing worse, is, yes, hypocritical, and disapproved.
(Romans 2:21-24) 21 . . .do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching, “Do not steal,” do you steal? 22 You, the one saying, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You, the one abhorring idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who take pride in law, do you dishonor God by your transgressing of the Law? 24 For “the name of God is being blasphemed among the nations because of you,” just as it is written.

However, if you mean you are a sinner, and make mistakes like everyone else, then to say you will not correct someone, when you know they are wrong, is a sin in itself, according to the Bible.
(James 4:17) . . .if someone knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.

For example, a person can be wrong, and not know, and the one who knows, is obligated to help adjust that one, if they truly have the love of God in them.
(Galatians 6:1) . . .even if a man takes a false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness. But keep an eye on yourself, for fear you too may be tempted.

Notice the verse also says, keep an eye on yourself, for fear you too may be tempted.
In other words, be humble about it - recognize your weaknesses.
So while you are doing that - recognizing your weaknesses, you are neglecting helping someone, when is is in the power of your hand to do so.
(Proverbs 3:27) Do not hold back good from those to whom it is owing, when it happens to be in the power of your hand to do [it].

You may be thinking to yourself, "Well someone else will do it." but really, doesn't god expect us to do it?
We must remember that cowardice is opposite to courage, and if we rely on God's strength, we will act courageously, for his name.

(Mark 8:38) For whoever becomes ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of man will also be ashamed of him when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”

Did you notice the surrounding verses? Even your own relatives, you may have to stand against courageously.
The scriptures tell us, reproof is necessary.
(1 Timothy 5:20) . . .Reprove before all onlookers those who practice sin, as a warning to the rest.
(2 Timothy 4:2) . . .reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching.

To avoid it, is to shrink back in fear. Is that not so?
Remember too, Abraham, Moses, Peter, Paul,... all of them made mistakes, but they were still given the responsibility to correct and discipline others.
It's our responsibility to stand on the side of truth.

I understand though, you don't feel you are adequately qualified to teach. In that case, why not seek to learn from those who can help you. Or maybe you don't know who can?

 

[Spirit of Light]

When you say do wrong in life, if you mean practice sin deliberately, then to correct someone when you are doing worse, is, yes, hypocritical, and disapproved.
(Romans 2:21-24) 21 . . .do you, however, the one teaching someone else, not teach yourself? You, the one preaching, “Do not steal,” do you steal? 22 You, the one saying, “Do not commit adultery,” do you commit adultery? You, the one abhorring idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who take pride in law, do you dishonor God by your transgressing of the Law? 24 For “the name of God is being blasphemed among the nations because of you,” just as it is written.

However, if you mean you are a sinner, and make mistakes like everyone else, then to say you will not correct someone, when you know they are wrong, is a sin in itself, according to the Bible.
(James 4:17) . . .if someone knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him.

For example, a person can be wrong, and not know, and the one who knows, is obligated to help adjust that one, if they truly have the love of God in them.
(Galatians 6:1) . . .even if a man takes a false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness. But keep an eye on yourself, for fear you too may be tempted.

Notice the verse also says, keep an eye on yourself, for fear you too may be tempted.
In other words, be humble about it - recognize your weaknesses.
So while you are doing that - recognizing your weaknesses, you are neglecting helping someone, when is is in the power of your hand to do so.
(Proverbs 3:27) Do not hold back good from those to whom it is owing, when it happens to be in the power of your hand to do [it].

You may be thinking to yourself, "Well someone else will do it." but really, doesn't god expect us to do it?
We must remember that cowardice is opposite to courage, and if we rely on God's strength, we will act courageously, for his name.

(Mark 8:38) For whoever becomes ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of man will also be ashamed of him when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.”

Did you notice the surrounding verses? Even your own relatives, you may have to stand against courageously.
The scriptures tell us, reproof is necessary.
(1 Timothy 5:20) . . .Reprove before all onlookers those who practice sin, as a warning to the rest.
(2 Timothy 4:2) . . .reprove, reprimand, exhort, with all patience and art of teaching.

To avoid it, is to shrink back in fear. Is that not so?
Remember too, Abraham, Moses, Peter, Paul,... all of them made mistakes, but they were still given the responsibility to correct and discipline others.
It's our responsibility to stand on the side of truth.

I understand though, you don't feel you are adequately qualified to teach. In that case, why not seek to learn from those who can help you. Or maybe you don't know who can?

I mean that as everybody else, i still do wrong in life, some call it sin, some call it lack of understanding. And personally i see it as lack of wisdom within the path i am on. It means according to the teaching i have a lot to understand. And this tell me that i should be careful to correct others, especially people from other religious practices.

I can ask: Are you sure that is a correct understanding. But i will no longer tell someone, you are wrong. Because what if i am wrong my self? then i do double sin. so it is better to be more and more thoughtful if the wish is to correct others on their path in life.

Of course if i know that it is an extreme sin someone are about to do, i can stop them and take the risk they do not harm me instead.

But when it comes to correcting someone religious belief, i have become more and more careful (i hope)

 

[MJ Bailey]

When talking to people who have a different type/colour of path or faith, mostly Christianity, I often feel somewhat encumbered by a feeling of trespassing.

For me the historical Jesus was a tantric Master and his teachings were universal, not Christian. His instructions about praying are for me more like detailed instructions about the use of mantra's meant to transform the mind of the disciple in a mystic direction.

In my contact with active Christians I sometimes feel like I must control my tongue in that I cannot be too enthustiastic about 'my' Jesus and His teachings out of fear that they will see me as indirectly criticizing their specific religious way of thinking since they follow more the interpretations of the evangelical authors in the New Testament.

Should you remain silent when your views conflict with another person's faith or should you be bold and accept that this kind rubbing of views is inescapable in the long run?

I would say stand your ground if that is the topic of conversation . However if this topic can avoided, I find it easier for everyone to still get along

 

[nPeace]

I mean that as everybody else, i still do wrong in life, some call it sin, some call it lack of understanding. And personally i see it as lack of wisdom within the path i am on. It means according to the teaching i have a lot to understand. And this tell me that i should be careful to correct others, especially people from other religious practices.

I can ask: Are you sure that is a correct understanding. But i will no longer tell someone, you are wrong. Because what if i am wrong my self? then i do double sin. so it is better to be more and more thoughtful if the wish is to correct others on their path in life.

Of course if i know that it is an extreme sin someone are about to do, i can stop them and take the risk they do not harm me instead.

But when it comes to correcting someone religious belief, i have become more and more careful (i hope)

I like your approach actually. Asking questions is a good approach. Jesus used that approach.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I like your approach actually. Asking questions is a good approach. Jesus used that approach.

I believe that each one of us, no matter what religious belief we holds would gain wisdom by looking at what spiritual leaders like Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha Sakyamuni, and so on was actually doing ( of course now we only have the scriptures, but still we can understand that being one who not judge others is better than judging,
I also know that some people in RF see me as one who judge others, and even if i can not see it right away, i do sometimes understand that even i do not try or want to judge other, it still happens.

So both asking one self and asking others (taking teaching of others) can help our own spiritual journey

 

[Vinayaka]

I believe that each one of us, no matter what religious belief we holds would gain wisdom by looking at what spiritual leaders like Jesus, Muhammad, Buddha Sakyamuni, and so on was actually doing ( of course now we only have the scriptures, but still we can understand that being one who not judge others is better than judging,
I also know that some people in RF see me as one who judge others, and even if i can not see it right away, i do sometimes understand that even i do not try or want to judge other, it still happens.

So both asking one self and asking others (taking teaching of others) can help our own spiritual journey

What if you get different messages though? Think of a time when your two parents gave you different answers. Right now you're aligned with a Sufi teacher. What if he says something contrary to what Jesus said? Or vice versa? Who do you listen to?

 

[Spirit of Light]

What if you get different messages though? Think of a time when your two parents gave you different answers. Right now you're aligned with a Sufi teacher. What if he says something contrary to what Jesus said? Or vice versa? Who do you listen to?

Jesus was teacher for christians If my teacher say soething that sound very out of tune with the teaching within Sufism, i would have to ask him questions to clerify what he actually ment. But i would not tell my teacher he was wrong.

 

[Vinayaka]

Jesus was teacher for christians If my teacher say soething that sound very out of tune with the teaching within Sufism, i would have to ask him questions to clerify what he actually ment. But i would not tell my teacher he was wrong.

I concur with that. No point having two masters. Nothing wrong with asking for clarification either. If I had a teacher and he went really far off from my own gut, he would no longer be my teacher. That hasn't happened yet.