Interpreting the Gospel of Thomas

[Cynic]

Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

Jesus said, "Whoever knows the father and the mother will be called the child of a whore."
Jesus said, "When you make the two into one, you will become children of Adam, and when you say, 'Mountain, move from here!' it will move."


How do Gnostics interpret these sayings?

 

[Halcyon]

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

I know this one off the top of my head, the other two will need researching.

This is nothing to do with males or females. To the ancient Gnostics; male = everything spiritual and female = everything material. Thus when Yeshua talks about making someone male, firstly the person in question may not necessarily be physically female - they may be a man. Secondly, he is talking about helping them let go of their attachment to material things and the material world so they can reach Gnosis/Enlightenment which is knowledge of the Father.

Why they used the allegories of male and female is a matter of speculation, i theorise that it is because females give birth and nuture new material life, they are linked to the "creation of new matter" far more intimately than a man is.

The lion one is harder, again its nothing to do with lions or humans. Its allegory. I imagine it is similar to the male/female quote.

 

[Cynic]

I know this one off the top of my head, the other two will need researching.

This is nothing to do with males or females. To the ancient Gnostics; male = everything spiritual and female = everything material. Thus when Yeshua talks about making someone male, firstly the person in question may not necessarily be physically female - they may be a man. Secondly, he is talking about helping them let go of their attachment to material things and the material world so they can reach Gnosis/Enlightenment which is knowledge of the Father.

Why they used the allegories of male and female is a matter of speculation, i theorise that it is because females give birth and nuture new material life, they are linked to the "creation of new matter" far more intimately than a man is.

The lion one is harder, again its nothing to do with lions or humans. Its allegory. I imagine it is similar to the male/female quote.

Hmmm. That sounds like a good explanation. However I always thought the female represented the spiritual, while the male physical: inner/outer, subjective/objective, etc. The saying reminds me of the Androgyne, the character that is both male and female, and it's been a while so i forgot what the androgyne supposedely represents.

 

[sanraal]

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

Jesus was talking about a female his (male) disciples. From ancient time a male is an active initiative taking person who also likes to take control and be in charge. A female is the other way around, passive, receiving, emotional etc.

I think Jesus wanted to make her complete in spirit meaning she has both her male and female side balanced. After all he thought males were often too controling (he did say 'oh thou of the wrong gender once'). His disciples had to become passive, receiving. Only then they could receive the gentle and loving Holy Spirit that filled their hearts. I think to the woman he meant to tell the other way around, making her more initiative taking and male so that her male/female qualities are in balance (the perfect Spirit).

 

[Buttons*]

Jesus was talking about a female his (male) disciples. From ancient time a male is an active initiative taking person who also likes to take control and be in charge. A female is the other way around, passive, receiving, emotional etc.

I think Jesus wanted to make her complete in spirit meaning she has both her male and female side balanced. After all he thought males were often too controling (he did say 'oh thou of the wrong gender once'). His disciples had to become passive, receiving. Only then they could receive the gentle and loving Holy Spirit that filled their hearts. I think to the woman he meant to tell the other way around, making her more initiative taking and male so that her male/female qualities are in balance (the perfect Spirit).

Yeah, that's what i thought too....

 

[Mr Cheese]

[FONT=&quot](7)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Jesus said,
“Blessed is the lion[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]which becomes man[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]when consumed by man;
and cursed is the man[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]whom the lion consumes,
and the lion becomes man.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
The Apocryphon of John[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“a lion-faced serpent … called … Yaltabaoth”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]On the Origin of the World[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“he called himself Yaldabaoth.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]But Ariael is what the perfect call him,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]for he was like a lion.” [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]The Apocryphon of John[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]“the rest of the powers become jealous, because[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]… his (Man’s) intelligence was greater[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]… than that of the chief archon.”[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Blessed is the lion [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]who becomes Man,[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]when Man consumes [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]this mythical god of good and evil [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]in the Spiritual fire [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]that melds all into One.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Cursed is the man,
consumed by the lion-faced archon
of jealousy and greed, who thereby allows
this evil archon to gain a human form.

thomas 7
....

In this intepretation we see Thomas is discussing overcoming of the demi urge

of course those that dislike the idea of Thomas as Gnostic may dislike this
[/FONT]

 

[eartheconomyspirit]

Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."

substitute ego for lion and eat with consume.

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

Jesus, aware of Peter's view on women, tactfully tries to show that ( in potential ) Mary is a spiritual equal to Peter. More importantly he is saying in spirituality we are all equals just like the tear of joy we can share.

Jesus said, "Whoever knows the father and the mother will be called the child of a whore."

Jesus refers to the knowable inner reality or spiritual nature as the father in other sayings. Mother represents the physical reality perhaps. In a spiritual context we cannot serve two masters. The personal choice is required or we risk influence from the physical realm. This could denigrate the spiritual experience, perhaps.

Jesus said, "When you make the two into one, you will become children of Adam, and when you say, 'Mountain, move from here!' it will move."

When you live as one, without ego. When through authenticity your outer actions are in accord with your inner potential it will be significant.

 

[DreadFish]

That makes sense. I have liked the Gospel of Thomas a lot, thanks for sharing.

EDIT: in reference to eartheconomyspirit's post.

 

[eartheconomyspirit]

Your welcome.


​5 Jesus said, "Know what is in front of your face, and what is hidden from you will be disclosed to you.
​For there is nothing hidden that will not be revealed. [And there is nothing buried that will not be raised."]

​What is in front of our face, certainly not our own spirituality. However the spirituality of others is. For example we can from time to time share a tear of joy or sadness. , our shared spirituality is often on display, in front of our face. The physical warmth of joy we feel when giving so freely and selflessly. The truth can never be hidden. In time, conscience and history all is revealed (or at least has the potential to be revealed perhaps)

 

[akrishi]

Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."

This statement is about reincarnation. In both cases, the lion will reincarnate as human.

 

[Shiranui117]

Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."

The lion symbolizes the passions and ignorance. The human "eating" the lion is symbolic of the human controlling, subduing and destroying the passions and ignorance. A human is foul if it is eaten by the lion, because we will not achieve gnosis if we allow our passions to blind us to the truth. Ordinarily, passions and ignorance are not a part of our true nature. But by allowing ourselves to be overcome by them, they change us, and what is alien to our inner divine nature distorts and corrupts our nature, so that "to be human" ceases to mean "to be a spark of God" and rather means "to be ignorant and controlled by the passions."

Jesus said, "Look, I will guide her to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every female who makes herself male will enter the kingdom of Heaven."

Hmmm. That sounds like a good explanation. However I always thought the female represented the spiritual, while the male physical: inner/outer, subjective/objective, etc.

This is correct. The Greek word for "spirit" is "pneuma," which is a feminine noun.

Jesus said, "Whoever knows the father and the mother will be called the child of a whore."
Jesus said, "When you make the two into one, you will become children of Adam, and when you say, 'Mountain, move from here!' it will move."

"Whoever knows the father" refers to "Whoever knows the flesh (i.e. ignorance, passions)". And "whoever knows the mother" refers to gnosis, Sophia(wisdom), and spiritual things. This is similar to the lesson in the Canonical Gospels of Jesus admonishing us not to serve "God and mammon." Trying to serve both ignorance+passion and gnosis makes us the child of two disconnected things, an abhorrent product. But taming and uniting our flesh to our spirit through gnosis not only redeems the spark of God in our souls, but also redeems whatever Light is in our bodies.

 

[o0eduardo0]

Jesus said, "Lucky is the lion that the human will eat, so that the lion becomes human. And foul is the human that the lion will eat, and the lion still will become human."
substitute ego for lion and eat with consume.

Truth. Love it

 

[JFish123]

Even though the Gospel of Thomas is perhaps the earliest, most popular, and best "Gnostic" Gospel around, it does not belong in the New Testament since it was written in the second century at a time when all of the apostles of Christianity had already died. This second century date of composition is demonstrated by
1) its dependence on more than half of the New Testament writings,
2) its likely mid to late second century Syrian influence,
3) its heretical nature with Gnostic overtones,
4) its lack of references from early church fathers or first century witnesses,
5) its disagreements and variations from the first century context of the New Testament gospels, and
6) its self-conscious promotion as an apostolic book which reflects a later time period. In fact, even many adherents to a first century origin for the Gospel of Thomas argue that, in its present form, Thomas reflects later editing.
The gospel of Thomas does not in any way share anything to do with the Real Jesus of the Bible

 

[Didachist]

One as someone interested in the early church, I must disagree with some of your points and present you a few arguments in response,

One the majority of evidence linking the Gospel of Thomas to Gnosticism is based upon the fact it was discovered in nag hammadi with gnostic works , however within nag hammadi there were also found platos republic.

From your own arguments against it
1) its dependence on more than half of the New Testament writings
How exactly is that a bad thing? The Gospel of Luke is clearly based upon the writings of the apostles and
disciples that preceded him.


2) its likely mid to late second century Syrian influence,
Can you please elaborate on that, after all we were first called Christians in antioch, which is in Syria in the 1st century A.D. and what influence is there between 1st century and 2nd century syrian influences? as in how does one distinguish the two?

3) its heretical nature with Gnostic overtones,
such as? Granted the Gnostics are from without, and not part of a Christian tradition, however the fact that the G.o.T. (Gospel of Thomas) speaks of mystery and knowledge this by itself is not enough to declare it a Gnostic work after all there is the very serious matter of

The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?” 11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them. 13 This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. (Matthew 13:10-13)

4) its lack of references from early church fathers or first century witnesses,

Origen used it though he did not declare it Canonical,It is infact very likely that the G.o.T. may have been touched by Gnostic writers but the fact that he used quotes directly from it
"Whoever is near me is near the fire. And whoever is far from me is far from the kingdom.”
Origens use of this and other sayings from thomas implies he believed in the authenticity of those particular sayings as though Christ himself had indeed said them!

This same saying is also used as authentic by Didymus the blind.

5) its disagreements and variations from the first century context of the New Testament gospels,
Such as?

6) its self-conscious promotion as an apostolic book which reflects a later time period. In fact, even many adherents to a first century origin for the Gospel of Thomas argue that, in its present form, Thomas reflects later editing.

Well again from Origen we do learn that Thomas was part of the 12 and was often writing what Christ said, Both Origen and Jerome talk about a sayings gospel it is possible that there was a better variant of thomas which was untouched by gnosticism when you actually study the early church and the patrist fathers of this church, you will come across something called the Agrapha which in many ways touch on Thomas and co-incide with it.


The gospel of Thomas does not in any way share anything to do with the Real Jesus of the Bible

again based on what evidence? there are sayings in Thomas which coincide with the synoptic Gospels and even more which coincide with the agrapha.