Interstellar asteroid shows no signs of life so far

[Father Heathen]

Insults are the most graceless form of conceding defeat Heathen.. don't give up so easily.

If you any substantive argument I'd be interested, you seem like a reasonably intelligent person to me.

Had you a genuine interest in the latter, I needn't have resorted to the former.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Had you a genuine interest in the latter, I needn't have resorted to the former.

It betrays the emotional aspect to your beliefs, and there's nothing wrong with that in itself, we all believe in something, we've all been frustrated by other people seemingly 'not understanding' our position.

But you see so many potentially interesting discussions dissolve into ad-hominem, I'm not offended so much as just bored by it.


For the record, you seem like a perfectly rational, intelligent person capable of critical thought, so keeping insults aside if possible, why do you think galactic colonization would be an insurmountable hurdle for ET?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Insults are the most graceless form of conceding defeat Heathen.. don't give up so easily.

If you any substantive argument I'd be interested, you seem like a reasonably intelligent person to me.

I saw that he tore your claim a new one. I missed the insults. Correcting a person is not an insult.

 

[Father Heathen]

why do you think galactic colonization would be an insurmountable hurdle for ET?

Again, as I've repeatedly pointed out, there are trillions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, (to put it into perspective, there are more stars than their are grains of sand on earth, and we've discovered earth-like planets from what is an infinitesimally small sample of that) and the distances between stars varies of course but it takes LIGHT 4 years just to reach our own star's closest neighbor, and it can take light billions of years to span the distance between galaxies. Yet you completely ignore this and talk as if any form of intelligent life can simply hop in a rocket, plant their flag on every potentially inhabitable planet, and be home in time for dinner. This would require technology that's significantly faster than light (which is impossible, according to Eisenstein) or can instantaneously teleport via "wormhole", both of which you suggest would be "easy".

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again, as I've repeatedly pointed out, there are trillions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, (to put it into perspective, there are more stars than their are grains of sand on earth, and we've discovered earth-like planets from what is an infinitesimally small sample of that) and the distances between stars varies of course but it takes LIGHT 4 years just to reach our own star's closest neighbor, and it can take light billions of years to span the distance between galaxies. Yet you completely ignore this and talk as if any form of intelligent life can simply hop in a rocket, plant their flag on every potentially inhabitable planet, and be home in time for dinner. This would require technology that's significantly faster than light (which is impossible, according to Eisenstein) or can instantaneously teleport via "wormhole", both of which you suggest would be "easy".

Of course it is possible. I have watched countless documentaries that demonstrate this. When I was a kid it was Lost In Space, and then Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. and so on. Where's my dang flying car?

 

[Guy Threepwood]

Again, as I've repeatedly pointed out, there are trillions of galaxies, each with billions of stars, (to put it into perspective, there are more stars than their are grains of sand on earth, and we've discovered earth-like planets from what is an infinitesimally small sample of that) and the distances between stars varies of course but it takes LIGHT 4 years just to reach our own star's closest neighbor, and it can take light billions of years to span the distance between galaxies. Yet you completely ignore this and talk as if any form of intelligent life can simply hop in a rocket, plant their flag on every potentially inhabitable planet, and be home in time for dinner. This would require technology that's significantly faster than light (which is impossible, according to Eisenstein) or can instantaneously teleport via "wormhole", both of which you suggest would be "easy".

It's called the Fermi paradox, and he used the same evidence as you and I- a superficial glance at the stats seems to suggest there would be countless advanced civilizations in this galaxy, so where are they?

4 light years is really not all that far, considering the galaxy has been around for BILLIONS. it only seems far to us because we live in an age when powered flight was a novelty for our Grandparents, we are brand new at this- but even then we already have probes beyond the solar system, and are eyeing exo-systems for potential investigation

So there has been plenty enough time for a past established civilization to traverse the entire galaxy more often than I've been to the local post office- and once again, that's just with technology not much better than ours, that is - say 1/10th light speed, which is considered feasible with our fledgling technology.

at 80% light speed, our nearest star would be a comparable voyage to one of Captain Cook's- but then you also have to remember how recently we have expanded our own lifespans, our only beginning to understand cryogenics e.g. in frogs... we can't constrain ET to our current new & limited technology which makes interstellar travel seem a little impractical... crossing the Atlantic used to seem very impractical not so long ago for similar logistical reasons

 

[Subduction Zone]

It's called the Fermi paradox, and he used the same evidence as you and I- a superficial glance at the stats seems to suggest there would be countless advanced civilizations in this galaxy, so where are they?

4 light years is really not all that far, considering the galaxy has been around for BILLIONS. it only seems far to us because we live in an age when powered flight was a novelty for our Grandparents, we are brand new at this- but even then we already have probes beyond the solar system, and are eyeing exo-systems for potential investigation

So there has been plenty enough time for a past established civilization to traverse the entire galaxy more often than I've been to the local post office- and once again, that's just with technology not much better than ours, that is - say 1/10th light speed, which is considered feasible with our fledgling technology.

at 80% light speed, our nearest star would be a comparable voyage to one of Captain Cook's- but then you also have to remember how recently we have expanded our own lifespans, our only beginning to understand cryogenics e.g. in frogs... we can't constrain ET to our current new & limited technology which makes interstellar travel seem a little impractical... crossing the Atlantic used to seem very impractical not so long ago for similar logistical reasons

How would you get a spaceship to 80% light speed?

Also you seem to be conflating life and intelligent life. It took 4.5 billion years for life to arise on this planet and we have no way of knowing whether intelligence is a long term survival trait of not yet.

When it comes to interstellar travel we still do not know if it is possible, much less whether it would be practical.

 

[Father Heathen]

It's called the Fermi paradox, and he used the same evidence as you and I- a superficial glance at the stats seems to suggest there would be countless advanced civilizations in this galaxy, so where are they?

4 light years is really not all that far, considering the galaxy has been around for BILLIONS. it only seems far to us because we live in an age when powered flight was a novelty for our Grandparents, we are brand new at this- but even then we already have probes beyond the solar system, and are eyeing exo-systems for potential investigation

So there has been plenty enough time for a past established civilization to traverse the entire galaxy more often than I've been to the local post office- and once again, that's just with technology not much better than ours, that is - say 1/10th light speed, which is considered feasible with our fledgling technology.

at 80% light speed, our nearest star would be a comparable voyage to one of Captain Cook's- but then you also have to remember how recently we have expanded our own lifespans, our only beginning to understand cryogenics e.g. in frogs... we can't constrain ET to our current new & limited technology which makes interstellar travel seem a little impractical... crossing the Atlantic used to seem very impractical not so long ago for similar logistical reasons

1/10 of light speed is roughly 67 million MPH. The fastest man made objects travel at around 150k mph.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

1/10 of light speed is roughly 67 million MPH. The fastest man made objects travel at around 150k mph.

Sure depending how you measure- the slowest man made objects are travelling at >500k MPH, relative to the galactic core..

in practice it comes down to acceleration and deceleration, with no real theoretical limit other than light for the maximum speed reached, though there are some interesting possible work-arounds there also.

There seems to be a fair consensus around 10% light speed for the time being, though you could always contact NASA and tell them where their calculations are wrong


Geoffrey A. Landis of NASA's Glenn Research Center states that a laser-powered interstellar sail ship could possibly be launched within 50 years, using new methods of space travel. "I think that ultimately we're going to do it, it's just a question of when and who," Landis said in an interview. Rockets are too slow to send humans on interstellar missions. Instead, he envisions interstellar craft with extensive sails, propelled by laser light to about one-tenth the speed of light.


Mission Laser Power Vehicle Mass Acceleration Sail Diameter Maximum Velocity (% of the speed of light)
1. Flyby – Alpha Centauri, 40 years
outbound stage 65 GW 1 t 0.036 g 3.6 km 11% @ 0.17 ly
2. Rendezvous – Alpha Centauri, 41 years
outbound stage 7,200 GW 785 t 0.005 g 100 km 21% @ 4.29 ly[dubious – discuss]
deceleration stage 26,000 GW 71 t 0.2 g 30 km 21% @ 4.29 ly
3. Manned – Epsilon Eridani, 51 years (including 5 years exploring star system)
outbound stage 75,000,000 GW 78,500 t 0.3 g 1000 km 50% @ 0.4 ly
deceleration stage 21,500,000 GW 7,850 t 0.3 g 320 km 50% @ 10.4 ly
return stage 710,000 GW 785 t 0.3 g 100 km 50% @ 10.4 ly
deceleration stage 60,000 GW 785 t 0.3 g 100 km 50% @ 0.4 ly


But again, we are discussing all this <60 years since the very first manned space flight.... in a galaxy billions of years old- if ETs exist, we have to assume at least some of them would have had a little more time to work on all this by now!!

i.e. The point is why none of them ever reached us given billions of years to do so, not why we haven't reached them in 60...

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sure depending how you measure- the slowest man made objects are travelling at >500k MPH, relative to the galactic core..

in practice it comes down to acceleration and deceleration, with no real theoretical limit other than light for the maximum speed reached, though there are some interesting possible work-arounds there also.

There seems to be a fair consensus around 10% light speed for the time being, though you could always contact NASA and tell them where their calculations are wrong


Geoffrey A. Landis of NASA's Glenn Research Center states that a laser-powered interstellar sail ship could possibly be launched within 50 years, using new methods of space travel. "I think that ultimately we're going to do it, it's just a question of when and who," Landis said in an interview. Rockets are too slow to send humans on interstellar missions. Instead, he envisions interstellar craft with extensive sails, propelled by laser light to about one-tenth the speed of light.


Mission Laser Power Vehicle Mass Acceleration Sail Diameter Maximum Velocity (% of the speed of light)
1. Flyby – Alpha Centauri, 40 years
outbound stage 65 GW 1 t 0.036 g 3.6 km 11% @ 0.17 ly
2. Rendezvous – Alpha Centauri, 41 years
outbound stage 7,200 GW 785 t 0.005 g 100 km 21% @ 4.29 ly[dubious – discuss]
deceleration stage 26,000 GW 71 t 0.2 g 30 km 21% @ 4.29 ly
3. Manned – Epsilon Eridani, 51 years (including 5 years exploring star system)
outbound stage 75,000,000 GW 78,500 t 0.3 g 1000 km 50% @ 0.4 ly
deceleration stage 21,500,000 GW 7,850 t 0.3 g 320 km 50% @ 10.4 ly
return stage 710,000 GW 785 t 0.3 g 100 km 50% @ 10.4 ly
deceleration stage 60,000 GW 785 t 0.3 g 100 km 50% @ 0.4 ly


But again, we are discussing all this <60 years since the very first manned space flight.... in a galaxy billions of years old- if ETs exist, we have to assume at least some of them would have had a little more time to work on all this by now!!

That sail powered craft probably would be a drone. Overcoming radiation is another huge technical problem. Plus a sixth year one-way journey is in no way comparable to early sailing exploration by man. At best you are showing that manned interstellar travel is all but impossible.

 

[james bond]

Oumuamua is a cigar-shaped asteroid 400 metres long and 40 metres wide and the first confirmed interstellar object. It has travelled past the earth at 85 times the distance from the moon and is expected to leave to Solar system with its speed peaking at 196,000 mph. Oumuamua is Hawaiian for "scout" or "Messenger".The oddness of its shape meant that scientists have considered the possibility that it was of artificial origin. It has been scanned for signs of radio transmissions and so far shown no signs of intelligent life.

The first batch of four observations ran from 8.45pm UK time on Wednesday until 2.45am on Thursday morning and spanned a frequency range from 1 to 12 GHz. While the search for alien signals has so far found nothing in the 1.7 to 2.6GHz range, the rest of the data is still being processed.

Is ‘Oumuamua an alien spacecraft? Initial scans show no signs of technology

Astronomers to check interstellar body for signs of alien technology

I think @Quetzal may like this one. Any thoughts star gazers?

So far, no signs except it's an asteroid. Asteroids are a joke today since the MSM just loves to talk about them without saying much. I suppose asteroid sightings have replaced UFO sightings.

 

[james bond]

Sure depending how you measure- the slowest man made objects are travelling at >500k MPH, relative to the galactic core..

in practice it comes down to acceleration and deceleration, with no real theoretical limit other than light for the maximum speed reached, though there are some interesting possible work-arounds there also.

There seems to be a fair consensus around 10% light speed for the time being, though you could always contact NASA and tell them where their calculations are wrong


Geoffrey A. Landis of NASA's Glenn Research Center states that a laser-powered interstellar sail ship could possibly be launched within 50 years, using new methods of space travel. "I think that ultimately we're going to do it, it's just a question of when and who," Landis said in an interview. Rockets are too slow to send humans on interstellar missions. Instead, he envisions interstellar craft with extensive sails, propelled by laser light to about one-tenth the speed of light.


Mission Laser Power Vehicle Mass Acceleration Sail Diameter Maximum Velocity (% of the speed of light)
1. Flyby – Alpha Centauri, 40 years
outbound stage 65 GW 1 t 0.036 g 3.6 km 11% @ 0.17 ly
2. Rendezvous – Alpha Centauri, 41 years
outbound stage 7,200 GW 785 t 0.005 g 100 km 21% @ 4.29 ly[dubious – discuss]
deceleration stage 26,000 GW 71 t 0.2 g 30 km 21% @ 4.29 ly
3. Manned – Epsilon Eridani, 51 years (including 5 years exploring star system)
outbound stage 75,000,000 GW 78,500 t 0.3 g 1000 km 50% @ 0.4 ly
deceleration stage 21,500,000 GW 7,850 t 0.3 g 320 km 50% @ 10.4 ly
return stage 710,000 GW 785 t 0.3 g 100 km 50% @ 10.4 ly
deceleration stage 60,000 GW 785 t 0.3 g 100 km 50% @ 0.4 ly


But again, we are discussing all this <60 years since the very first manned space flight.... in a galaxy billions of years old- if ETs exist, we have to assume at least some of them would have had a little more time to work on all this by now!!

i.e. The point is why none of them ever reached us given billions of years to do so, not why we haven't reached them in 60...

If some of us do survive to see the day, then it would be something. However, Fermi, Sagan and many others didn't live long enough to see aliens. Even non-intelligent ones. If the aliens were intelligent enough, then we would be able to detect their civilization with our current equipment. Maybe the government is just suppressing the evidence.

 

[Guy Threepwood]

If some of us do survive to see the day, then it would be something. However, Fermi, Sagan and many others didn't live long enough to see aliens. Even non-intelligent ones. If the aliens were intelligent enough, then we would be able to detect their civilization with our current equipment. Maybe the government is just suppressing the evidence.

It's a fascinating question, since either answer; alone or not, is so profound. But the more we learn about conditions required for complex life... the trend is pointing away from ET being inevitable.

Even according to Darwinists, humans only appeared though a series of extremely unlikely events, to emerge as the only advanced intelligence among millions of species here on Earth.

i.e. even finding another million planets identical to Earth, would not guarantee intelligence ever developing there

 

[james bond]

How would you get a spaceship to 80% light speed?

Also you seem to be conflating life and intelligent life. It took 4.5 billion years for life to arise on this planet and we have no way of knowing whether intelligence is a long term survival trait of not yet.

When it comes to interstellar travel we still do not know if it is possible, much less whether it would be practical.

No reason to have a spaceship. We just want to know where the aliens are? Some kind of advanced probe or more powerful telescope would do the job. You should be surprised we haven't found any evidence yet. It favors people like me thinking rare earth and fine tuning (atheist scientists discovery).

I would think intelligence is a survival trait as non-intelligent ones become food, protected or are exterminated even with their survival instinct. We are a self-preservation society. Of course, you do not recognize that God created man to rule over animals, so what good is evolution if it can't tell you that?

 

[Subduction Zone]

No reason to have a spaceship. We just want to know where the aliens are? Some kind of advanced probe or more powerful telescope would do the job. You should be surprised we haven't found any evidence yet. It favors people like me thinking rare earth and fine tuning (atheist scientists discovery).

I would think intelligence is a survival trait as non-intelligent ones become food, protected or are exterminated even with their survival instinct. We are a self-preservation society. Of course, you do not recognize that God created man to rule over animals, so what good is evolution if it can't tell you that?

Once again you should not use terms that you do not understand.

 

[ChristineM]

No reason to have a spaceship. We just want to know where the aliens are? Some kind of advanced probe or more powerful telescope would do the job. You should be surprised we haven't found any evidence yet. It favors people like me thinking rare earth and fine tuning (atheist scientists discovery).

I would think intelligence is a survival trait as non-intelligent ones become food, protected or are exterminated even with their survival instinct. We are a self-preservation society. Of course, you do not recognize that God created man to rule over animals, so what good is evolution if it can't tell you that?

Did god create the millions of bacterial infesting your stomach and the stomach of every other living creature on the planet.

Very little, if any intelligence, such bacteria are the most successful living organisms on this planet.

I dont see man ruling over bacteria

 

[james bond]

Did god create the millions of bacterial infesting your stomach and the stomach of every other living creature on the planet.

Very little, if any intelligence, such bacteria are the most successful living organisms on this planet.

I dont see man ruling over bacteria

God had to create the bacteria. Which day did he do this, @ChristineM? C'mon it's not that hard.

Does man rule bacteria? He rules bacteria by knowing how to protect himself from it. It is explained in the Bible under health and the human body being the most resilient on earth.

As for the other planets, the answer is blowing in the solar wind. Didn't we go to practically every planet in our solar system now? Where are the alien bacteria?

You may as well go back to my Fermi's paradox thread and "Where is Everybody?"

BTW if you watch the clip, RS says that humans have a powerful need for companionship. Where was the companion in the evolutionary fairy tale?

 

[Subduction Zone]

God had to create the bacteria. Which day did he do this, @ChristineM? C'mon it's not that hard.

Does man rule bacteria? He rules bacteria by knowing how to protect himself from it. It is explained in the Bible under health and the human body being the most resilient on earth.

As for the other planets, the answer is blowing in the solar wind. Didn't we go to practically every planet in our solar system now? Where are the alien bacteria?

You may as well go back to my Fermi's paradox thread and "Where is Everybody?"

BTW if you watch the clip, RS says that humans have a powerful need for companionship. Where was the companion in the evolutionary fairy tale?

Yet you can't support any of your claims with reliable evidence. All you have are refuted myths. And no, the Bible does not make that claim about the human body being the most resilient on Earth. And it is a good thing that it doesn't, since that is clearly not the case. Life is not expected on other planets in the Solar System, though it looks like there may be a slight possibility. of life on other planets in our solar system, though it would be very simple life if discovered.

Why do you keep using failed arguments over and over again? It appears that you have more than a streak of masochism at this forum.

 

[ChristineM]

God had to create the bacteria. Which day did he do this, @ChristineM? C'mon it's not that hard.

Does man rule bacteria? He rules bacteria by knowing how to protect himself from it. It is explained in the Bible under health and the human body being the most resilient on earth.

As for the other planets, the answer is blowing in the solar wind. Didn't we go to practically every planet in our solar system now? Where are the alien bacteria?

You may as well go back to my Fermi's paradox thread and "Where is Everybody?"

BTW if you watch the clip, RS says that humans have a powerful need for companionship. Where was the companion in the evolutionary fairy tale?

Dont know,which was god magic day?

Ha, ha, so you never get stomach aches, diarrhea and we have completely eradicated salmonella, norovirus, campylobacter, E. coli, listeria, etc. If i were you id tell the medical fraternity because they are still spending millions to treat the effects of these bacteria we have control over.

Do you actually think the solar system represents the universe? And the game is still afoot for Mars, Enceladus, Titan, Europa, Callisto and Ganymede

Been through the "not" Fermi paradox and thoroughly refuted you. Good of you to return hoping for a different answer, like thats going to happen.

It evolved. Gotya