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Investigating Sacred Waters, Rivers and Deities

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Joseph Campbell's idea is that all myths are just explanations of things we don't understand.
Thanks for replying :)

Yes, I´m familiar with the JC approach to myths which is connected to Carl Gustaf Jung´s terminology of different levels of psychological (un) consciousness.

Quote from Creation Myth:
"A creation myth (or cosmogonic myth) is a symbolic narrative of how the world began and how people first came to inhabit it. While in popular usage the term myth often refers to false or fanciful stories, members of cultures often ascribe varying degrees of truth to their creation myths".

All this depends directy on an ability to connect the chosen myth of creation to its correct astronomical and cosmological realms. That is: In order to understand the numerous cultural Myths of Creation, you have to take the observable part of the Universe into account for these myths as mentioned in my profile signature.

If succeded in this, I´ll say very much of the ancient Stories of Creation nicely describes the real world - even if some symbols can cause some headaces before opened up.

In this sense, your following comment is quite correct :)
As our understanding increases, there is less room for myths.
Personally I really like the ancient language of symbols carved in stones and painted on walls. To me, this is a genious way to describe everything in a natural way - simply because the astronomic and cosmic symbolism derives from natural motifs and observations.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
When I was in elementary school, the books I checked out from the school library were nearly all Greek mythology. Also books about history and archaeology.
When I was younger, I did the same things...well, not the archaeology parts. With Ancient Greek myths and history, I was hooked for life.

Unfortunately for me, our library was tiny, and so were the selection of Greek myths, so it didn’t take all that long to go through them. But I was hooked all the same.

It was only when I was older that I became interested in archaeology too.
 

gnostic

The Lost One
Thanks for replying :)

Yes, I´m familiar with the JC approach to myths which is connected to Carl Gustaf Jung´s terminology of different levels of psychological (un) consciousness.

Quote from Creation Myth:
"A creation myth (or cosmogonic myth) is a symbolic narrative of how the world began and how people first came to inhabit it. While in popular usage the term myth often refers to false or fanciful stories, members of cultures often ascribe varying degrees of truth to their creation myths".

All this depends directy on an ability to connect the chosen myth of creation to its correct astronomical and cosmological realms. That is: In order to understand the numerous cultural Myths of Creation, you have to take the observable part of the Universe into account for these myths as mentioned in my profile signature.

If succeded in this, I´ll say very much of the ancient Stories of Creation nicely describes the real world - even if some symbols can cause some headaces before opened up.

In this sense, your following comment is quite correct :)

Personally I really like the ancient language of symbols carved in stones and painted on walls. To me, this is a genious way to describe everything in a natural way - simply because the astronomic and cosmic symbolism derives from natural motifs and observations.

It wasn’t the creation myths that first attracted me to myths, but the high adventures of Perseus, Jason, Hercules and Ulysses, when I was much younger.

Back then, most of the books I read at that age, most authors preferred to use their Latin names; it was only after high school that I began thinking them by their Greek names, when I could afford to buy my own books, eg Heracles instead of Hercules, Odysseus instead of Ulysses, and so on.
 

Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
@Wandering Monk & Gnosis,
My mythical interests was initiated by a nearby field of Rock Arts from the Bronze Age and especially by a text in a dream which said: "The answer is in the library".

I used to go to the local library for books and music and on my way out from the lending disk, I observed an advertizing poster on one of the building pillars. It was a Scientific Atlas and it showed the whitish contours of the Milky Way galaxy and I immediately regcognized this imagery showing a malish and femalish looking figure which I´ve also have observed on the Rock Art field.

astron.043.atlas.ns.lille.jpg


The rest is history . . .
 
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Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Anyway, knowing that you are fan of Velikovsky, Native, would explain why I am always on the opposite of the fence, whenever we debate in these forums.
Didn´t you read what I wrote?
Note: I´m not a member of the ThunderboltsProject (TBP) and I´m not supporting everything in the TBP society, but in this case, just their very strict electric universe approach. Otherwise, the TBP works with anceint Myths of Creation but just connects these to planets, thus seriously distorting both the myths and the ancient astronomical understanding.

In this mythical approach, the TBP has it that "once upon a time some planets were located hovering in a line closely over the Earth celestial north pole" - a mad idea in where the TBP take electromagnetic forces from the Sun to once have captured these planets and located these over the Earth celestial pole. And where "electric discharge scarrings" should have caused all kinds of "geographical" patterns on the Earth and other planets.

Totally bunkers all based on misinterpreted Myths of Creation, initially suggested by Immanuel Velikovsky, a Russian psychiatrist and psychoanalyst who wrote the controversial "Worlds in Collisions".
Here I criticise and debunks the mythical perceptions in the TBP and Velikovsky!

Velikovsky (and the TBP) interpret planets to be the gods and goddesses of creation - which is pure nonsense and on the line of popular astrology.
BUT:

But Velikovsky ALSO argued that "electromagnetic effects play an important role in celestial mechanics" (Which is correct ONLY if the Solar System mechanics are connected to the EM formation in the galactic center) Read "Cosmos without Gravity" here.
Just because a person has strange ideas in one area, he/she of course shouldn´t be completely depreciated.

I guess this "planetary interpretation" of ancient deities also may have had a negative affect on your early studies of myths? You know, if the prime Roman god Jupiter, or your Greek god Zeus, is interpreted as planet Jupiter, the entire mythical context is lost - together with a deep interest for the rest of creation.
 
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Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
A little follow up on this:
My mythical interests was initiated by a nearby field of Rock Arts from the Bronze Age and especially by a text in a dream which said: "The answer is in the library".

I used to go to the local library for books and music and on my way out from the lending disk, I observed an advertizing poster on one of the building pillars. It was a Scientific Atlas and it showed the whitish contours of the Milky Way galaxy and I immediately regcognized this imagery showing a malish and femalish looking figure which I´ve also have observed on the Rock Art field.

astron.041.atlas.lil.male.crop.jpg

Star Atlas of the northern hemisphere with the celestial pole and the contours of the Milky Way. This figure constitutes a prime male deity in several cultures.

Male God. Rock Art Sweden. Bohuslen County.jpg mand.058.Egypt.Mythology.Set.02.jpg
Bronze Age Rock Art from Sweden.The most elaborated and detailed image of the Milky Way on the northern hemisphere, compared with the Egyptian God, Seth.

Below: Different stylized Rock Art carvings of the malish looking Milky Way figure. The wheel stands symbolically for "a motion around it´s own center" which fits logically to the Earth celestial pole and the (seemingly) revolving motion of stars, constellations and the Milky Way figure, which in several cultures is called "Father Time" as a revolving figure of night and its different celestial positions throughout the seasons, thus counting years.

mand.009.hjulkrop.jpg mand.008.hjulkrop.jpg mand.006.polp.grubekreds.jpg

The Rock Art images are all made by charcoal rubbing of the surface. "A man and a wheel" = In Danish, the "Jule-mand" = Santa Claus
 

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Native

Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
Subjects: Water Deities - The Underworld - Dying and Rising Gods - Milky Way Center

List of Water Deities

“A water deity is a deity in mythology associated with water or various bodies of water. Water deities are common in mythology and were usually more important among civilizations in which the sea or ocean, or a great river was more important. Another important focus of worship of water deities has been springs or holy wells.

As a form of animal worship, whales and snakes (hence dragons) have been regarded as godly deities throughout the world (other animals are such as turtles, fish, crabs, and sharks). In Asian lore, whales and dragons sometimes have connections. Serpents are also common as a symbol or as serpentine deities, sharing many similarities with dragons”.

Me: As already mentioned in the Primordial Cosmic Ocean link, water in all kind of ways plays a huge role in the cultural myths, right from the description of the very creation itself to the cultural idea of describing the Milky Way contours as “the celestial River” and "water" is also associated with the mythical concept of The Underworld.

The Mythical Worlds
"Worlds" in ancient creation myths describe of course the Earth, the dayly and nocturnal celestial objects and motions and a "world under the horizon", into where the Sun, the Moon and planets and SOME star constellations "descends under the horizon into the underworld" i.e. to the Earth´ southern hemisphere and all it´s celestial scenario of stars, constellations and the southern crescent contours of the Milky Way. (In Norse Mythogy Midgaard = Earth, Asgaard = the Sky and Utgaard = The Southern Sky)

Myth of the Dying and Rising God
The Earth is orbiting the Sun and because of the Earth axis tilt of 23.5 degree, different lower star constellations seem to ascend over and descent below the Earth´horizon, thus making the astronomical/mythical explanation of the Dying and Rising Deity.

Edit:
One of the most known "dying and rising deities" is the star constellation of Orion: "Orion was likely the son of the sea-god Poseidon and Euryale, daughter of Minos, King of Crete. Orion could walk on the waves . . .". This telling confirms that the Orion constellation ascends and decends over and under (Underworld) the Earth´s watery horizon.


The Milky Way Center
On the underworld southern Sky, the star constellation of Sagittarius points towards the Milky Way center which mythologically is mentioned as the cyclical Center of Life. i. e. birth, death and rebirth. This center is also mythically named the "Cosmic Womb" which fits nicely to the female looking Milky Way figure who is mythically called The Mother Goddess in several cultures.

Links:
Underworld Deities
Death and Life Deities

Resume:

Of course different natural event are ascribed to "forces of deities" but when analyzing the mythical contexts, it is obvious that these deals with all kinds of celestial objects and scenarios whiich are described by its appearances and motions.

Very often a geographic location is mentioned together with a deity, as if this deity once lived on the Earth, which is nonsense. This just tells of WHERE humans worshipped this celestial deity.

- As mentioned several times before, scholars and authors are conflating lots of mythical issues, as for instants conflating the central Milky Way Light with the Sun; conflating the crescent Milky Way figure with the crescent Moon symbol and conflating the Earth axis Polar Wheel with a Solar Wheel and so on.

This list of conflation is huge because most scholars and authors have no ideas of the cosmological extend in the Mythological Stories.

Reelvant comments and questions are welcome :)

Regards
Native
 
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