Ir/Religious Snobbery

[Bear Wild]

In my time on the forums, I've seen quite a bit of it.

It doesn't seem unique to any one religious(or irreligious group), but can potentially come from any: Folks that think they, and those who believe like them, are superior to those who don't.

Sometimes its very specific, and folks snub anyone who doesn't belong to their religion(or lack of religion). For others, its more general. They may approve of others that have a similar view(like Abrahamics being okay with other Abrahamics, but less accepting of those outside of that frame of reference), or may only snub certain religions(for example, being okay with Buddhists, but finding Pagans obnoxious).

Do you feel your beliefs(or lack of beliefs) make you superior to those who see things differently? Everyone, or just certain ones? Why or why not?

I see my path as connective to the rest of the natural world and not superior. It is the path that I resonate with and creates a meaningful connection with the world around me. The problem with anyone entering into the pagan path has been a long history of oppression from a monotheistic, atheistic, and academic groups. There is the attitude that modern pagans practice a made up fantasy religion. Polytheistic is inferior to monotheistic, gods and goddesses are made up and fantasy from those who don't want to consider what the gods and goddesses really are. Animism is primitive and ignorant without considering the integrative affect this has on seeing oneself as a part of something equal and greater. Myths are fantasy and yet when seen through the ancestral eyes they are profound wisdom that speaks more to the truth of this world than all the isolated facts generated in modern life. There is an acceptance to diversity of cultural world views that are legitimate to that culture which gives it a harmony with the land they connect with but is seen as delusional from the "only" way to see the world. What I have seen especially over the last 20 years of pagan practices is an amazing maturing that understands one cannot return to the past and yet can embrace the wisdom of the past to return to a harmony with the greater world around us not as superior but as a member a wonderous community of this Earth. It is not an easy path either as we witness the destruction of what we hold sacred and the lack of respect of legitimacy that our religion has. Thankfully there are others like you who do understand.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You know what - my faith works FOR ME. I don't presume that it will work for everyone. But I've done a ton of research over many years and this is what works for me.

It's why I maintain that a religion is something distinctly personal and is not meant or intended for anyone else.

 

[Kathryn]

It's why I maintain that a religion is something distinctly personal and is not meant or intended for anyone else.

I agree generally.

 

[Mock Turtle]

It's not religions, per se, that cause this unwillingness to learn. It's our own fear and ego. Fear causes us to want to ingnore our ignorance, because we fear the vulnerability it engenders, while the ego wants to maintain the illusion of righteousness regardless of it's actuality. Yes, religions often feed these unfortunate human traits, but so does politics, economics, history and just about every other expression of human culture. Willful ignorance is clearly evident in atheists as it is in theists. If one is willing to see it.

But perhaps less dangerous, given they don't tend to have authority over others.

 

[JustGeorge]

It’s something I feel strongly about.

For one thing, it makes people easy to manipulate.

But wouldn't an attitude that "if everybody just thought, they'd come to the same conclusions I did" open up the door for manipulation, too?

It's worse when superiority is channeled through an old embellished ratty old book or collection of books that for some reason, people think it actually means something to everyone when it only means something to the people who think that way.

I don't know if its any worse.

I've faced the 'superiority complex' from those with ratty old books, those who hate ratty old books, and everywhere in between. It always stinks when you find it, no matter who its from.

One of the things I find strange is that every subset within any religion has its own particular set of quotes they think prove they are the true believers. When you try to talk about the wider context you can literally see their eyes glaze over lol. I suppose it’s a function of ingrained tribalism.

Tribalism is a huge problem, I agree. But, shedding beliefs doesn't rid oneself of a 'tribe'.

I disagree, to some extent. It’s a necessary function of life to make judgements about people, we all do it, all the time, but for some reason pretending we don’t is considered good form. The question is one of the criteria we use, not whether we use any.

I think there's useful judgements, and harmful judgements. If your judgement helps you know how to interact with the person(such as noting Jim doesn't like loud sounds, or Katie seems uncomfortable in crowds), its useful. If its just something that tells you nothing, but makes you feel 'superior' to the person(such as snickering at Henry because you think he's an idiot, or laughing at Becky's ratty clothing), its harmful.

I feel I'm doing them a favor, while they feel they are being attacked.

You may mean well, but this reminds me of being a teen...

Everyone thought they were doing me a favor by telling me I'd be so much happier if I'd wash the blue out of my hair, slap on some [pink] lipstick, turn off the heavy metal and learn to flirt a little...

I will put it slightly differently. Some people (the ones you referred to) mentally assume, "I'm the teacher," while others figure "I'm the student," while still others are indifferent and don't see this as a student - teacher place but a s a friendship place. So are you telling, sharing, or asking?

"Who exactly made you the teacher?" pops into my head on occasion, yes.

Good question. I wonder what pushes someone into that 'teacher role'(in their mind).

There's still something wonderful about going to a library and reading something that dosent require a connection or batteries.

I agree! I've created a wonderful home library for myself that's brought me a lot of joy.

 

[Heyo]

Good question. I wonder what pushes someone into that 'teacher role'(in their mind).

Recognition. When I meet someone who has the same questions I had before I learned, I can explain the way to my current position to them.
Experience. I have come to my position by many lessons I learned (debating people on the internet). I know a lot of ways to defend my position.

 

[Tomef]

if everybody just thought, they'd come to the same conclusions I did

I think the opposite is true, if people think they come to different conclusions.

 

[Tomef]

But, shedding beliefs doesn't rid oneself of a 'tribe'.

No, but I think it’s better to be part of a tribe that recognises its own limitations. That is willing to admit when it is wrong and change if expedient. Religious groups only seem to admit wrongdoing when the need to admit is forced on them in some way.

 

[Tomef]

I think there's useful judgements, and harmful judgements. If your judgement helps you know how to interact with the person(such as noting Jim doesn't like loud sounds, or Katie seems uncomfortable in crowds), its useful. If its just something that tells you nothing, but makes you feel 'superior' to the person(such as snickering at Henry because you think he's an idiot, or laughing at Becky's ratty clothing), its harmful.

It isn’t all just about being nice though. The ability to make judgements about whether or not you can trust someone, based on their actions (etc) and other things of that sort is a key life skill.

 

[JustGeorge]

It isn’t all just about being nice though. The ability to make judgements about whether or not you can trust someone, based on their actions (etc) and other things of that sort is a key life skill.

Judgements don't have to be nice to be useful. The examples given were, but deciding Timmy's a liar and Kelly is a thief(and keeping one's distance due to that) is valid, too.

 

[Quintessence]

Do you feel your beliefs(or lack of beliefs) make you superior to those who see things differently? Everyone, or just certain ones? Why or why not?

I think a lot of folks are going to be inclined to answer this question in a way that demonstrates humility or to save face. However, if we think about what it means to be "superior" to something else our answers should change from social posturing to an honest assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of a particular way of life.

My religion makes me better at doing certain things and gives me superior skills in certain things. For example, practicing a reconstructed indigenous religion that focuses on connecting to the gods/spirits of the land is a skill set I've developed that others simply haven't.

It also makes me worse at doing other things that are not part of my tradition or practices.

 

[Secret Chief]

Ir means?

 

[PureX]

Do you feel your beliefs(or lack of beliefs) make you superior to those who see things differently? Everyone, or just certain ones? Why or why not?

I think a lot of folks are going to be inclined to answer this question in a way that demonstrates humility or to save face. However, if we think about what it means to be "superior" to something else our answers should change from social posturing to an honest assessment of the strengths and weaknesses of a particular way of life.

My religion makes me better at doing certain things and gives me superior skills in certain things. For example, practicing a reconstructed indigenous religion that focuses on connecting to the gods/spirits of the land is a skill set I've developed that others simply haven't.

It also makes me worse at doing other things that are not part of my tradition or practices.

The native Americans living around the Great Lake Region had a sacred ritual that they would perform, the conclusion of which would result in a very sturdy, functional, birch-bark canoe. And each generation would pass the ritual down to the next. Finding the right kind of forrest with the right kind of trees. Cutting through the bark in a circle around the tree so many hands distance apart. Slicing the bark off the tree in a single piece. Placing stakes in the ground a specific distance apart from each other. Tying the bows of the three's carefully chosen branches to the stakes to make the canoe's "ribs" and "spine". Stretching the birch bark over the branch bows and binding them tightghly with green reeds. And so on and so on. Every stap a part of the sacred ritual. The result being that nature would provide a man with a way to traverse the waters.

No one knew where the ritual had came from. How it was perfected. Only that if one adhered to the ritual properly, the 'magic' would work, and a man would have a canoe. And after he'd use it to traverse the waters he would carefully place it by the shore where another man might find it and use it, as well. Because the canoe did not belong to the man. It belonged to the forest that gave it to the man in response to the ritual, and to the water that allowed him to float across it.

It came to him as a gift, and so he would leave it to others, also as a gift.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Do you feel your beliefs(or lack of beliefs) make you superior to those who see things differently? Everyone, or just certain ones? Why or why not?

I don't look at people as "superior" or "inferior," but I certainly look down on belief systems that promote cruelty.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Ir means?

I read "ir/religious" as "irreligious or religious."

 

[sun rise]

Do you feel your beliefs(or lack of beliefs) make you superior to those who see things differently?

I believe these are from Rumi. I believe what they say. That settles it (for me at least)

"Let the beauty we love be what we do.
There are hundreds of ways to kneel and kiss the ground."

“There are as many paths to God as there are souls on this Earth.” ​

 

[SalixIncendium]

Ir means?

Infrared.

 

[JustGeorge]

Ir means?

I read "ir/religious" as "irreligious or religious."

Yup.

I was too lazy to type out the full word.

I'm sure laziness from me is not surprising.

 

[Secret Chief]

Do you feel your beliefs(or lack of beliefs) make you superior to those who see things differently? Everyone, or just certain ones? Why or why not?

No I don't.
What I think/believe is as a result of my experiences.

 

[Secret Chief]

Infrared.

I was thinking Inland Revenue.