Iran, Saudi Arabia and Trump

[MD]

A lot of us were shocked by Trumps latest ban, to stop Muslim immigration from 'trouble spots' in his first week. Some of these countries were Iran, Iraq (a country destroyed by American wars) and Yemen (another country destroyed by an American ally, Saudi Arabia).

To give you context on Iran, it has the most secular populace in the Muslim world. Although its leaders are theocrats, the populace is secularizing more and more each year. In fact it has become so secular that Zoroastrian religious festivals have become national holidays. Try to understand this, a religion which is seen as pagan, is becoming culturally significant. A religion which fuels the hatred of millions of jihadists, is becoming significant in an Islamic theocratic state, without much opposition.

Most people here would be hard pressed to name a very religious Iranian they have met in the West. Also, being a Shi'a state alienates them from most of the Sunni world and the colonial imposition of Islam is a part of the Iranian psych. Islam is a part of Iranian society, at the same time there is a sense of resentment at the loss of Iran's national identity after its arrival.

After the revolution many liberal Iranians had to flee because Khomeini was executing many people, and they came mostly to the U.S. and worked to promote secularism in the Iranian state. To ban Iranians, many whom are secretly ex Muslims or cultural Muslims, is nothing short of either incredible stupidity or part of some bigger plan with Saudi Arabia.

Trump did not ban immigration from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan. Saudi Arabia is a known promoter of terrorism in the world. Hundreds of Islamist factions have received funding from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states. The millions of jihadists who hate Iran and Zoroastrianism, are fueled by propaganda from Saudi Arabia. Trump has a lot of business with these states, which goes to show that his actions have been guided more so by money than any ideology. Actually Obama has also indirectly helped prop up many Islamist factions, which makes one think if Trump and Obama are really that different behind the scenes. Perhaps they maintain the same alliances and wars, while putting on a different public image.

In the end it is obvious that the American Right does not serve minorities or the LGBT community. But the Left is a mess, supporting Islamism, ignoring class struggles, ignoring capitalism and obsessed with obscure identity politics.

Many of us are stuck in between a rock and a hard place. I have to recognise that I cannot anymore identify with the Right, but take a centrist position. Any slight shift to the Left or Right, will be serving interests that work against me, my family and my community.

So any other centrists here?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

A lot of us were shocked by Trumps latest ban, to stop Muslim immigration from 'trouble spots' in his first week. Some of these countries were Iran, Iraq (a country destroyed by American wars) and Yemen (another country destroyed by an American ally, Saudi Arabia).

To give you context on Iran, it has the most secular populace in the Muslim world. Although its leaders are theocrats, the populace is secularizing more and more each year. In fact it has become so secular that Zoroastrian religious festivals have become national holidays. Try to understand this, a religion which is seen as pagan, is becoming culturally significant. A religion which fuels the hatred of millions of jihadists, is becoming significant in an Islamic theocratic state, without much opposition.

Most people here would be hard pressed to name a very religious Iranian they have met in the West. Also, being a Shi'a state alienates them from most of the Sunni world and the colonial imposition of Islam is a part of the Iranian psych. Islam is a part of Iranian society, at the same time there is a sense of resentment at the loss of Iran's national identity after its arrival.

After the revolution many liberal Iranians had to flee because Khomeini was executing many people, and they came mostly to the U.S. and worked to promote secularism in the Iranian state. To ban Iranians, many whom are secretly ex Muslims or cultural Muslims, is nothing short of either incredible stupidity or part of some bigger plan with Saudi Arabia.

Trump did not ban immigration from Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Pakistan. Saudi Arabia is a known promoter of terrorism in the world. Hundreds of Islamist factions have received funding from Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states. The millions of jihadists who hate Iran and Zoroastrianism, are fueled by propaganda from Saudi Arabia. Trump has a lot of business with these states, which goes to show that his actions have been guided more so by money than any ideology. Actually Obama has also indirectly helped prop up many Islamist factions, which makes one think if Trump and Obama are really that different behind the scenes. Perhaps they maintain the same alliances and wars, while putting on a different public image.

In the end it is obvious that the American Right does not serve minorities or the LGBT community. But the Left is a mess, supporting Islamism, ignoring class struggles, ignoring capitalism and obsessed with obscure identity politics.

Many of us are stuck in between a rock and a hard place. I have to recognise that I cannot anymore identify with the Right, but take a centrist position. Any slight shift to the Left or Right, will be serving interests that work against me, my family and my community.

So any other centrists here?

Yep, I think of myself as a centrist.
However, I'm an Australian centrist. Probably makes me a leftie by US terms, I would guess.
Still, I try hard to consider the issues, and don't always find myself on the same side, depending on what's been discussed.

And I find your OP very interesting.

 

[sun rise]

Many have noted that the countries affected are not the ones that supplied terrorists who actually did carry out attacks in the USA. And, what you write about the Saudi promotion of Wahhabi extremists is absolutely true.

But you are wrong about the left - as a member of the left with friends on the left as a group. Islamism, any restriction on people's rights on the basis of religion is anathema. And in America, critiques of capitalism are a fundamental part of left politics.

 

[MD]

But you are wrong about the left - as a member of the left with friends on the left as a group. Islamism, any restriction on people's rights on the basis of religion is anathema. And in America, critiques of capitalism are a fundamental part of left politics.

You had a quote from a well know extremist who has repeatedly called for the death of Salman Rushdie...many on the Left support Islamists. The national co chair of the womens march supports Sharia and Saudi Arabia.

And no, the Left hasn't focused on class in years, it focuses purely on identity politics. To the Left a rich wealthy woman is oppressed, while a poor man who works 2 jobs to support his family is privileged and an oppressor. Leftist social theory is lunacy.

 

[interminable]

Something that u wrote about growing secularism in Iran isn't true.
We always respect minorities which have prophets and divine books.

This is completely rude that US wants to ban Muslims while the US itself is a greatest supporter of terrorists in middle east.

They themselves waged a war in Syria and now say to Muslims don't come to US.