Iranian cleric's call to kill activist challenging country's ban on women cycling

[danieldemol]

The fact that the linked article in the OP mentions Rushdie though pushes the potential 'seriousness' of the article into the realm of clear propaganda.

Ah ok, so let’s pretend open death threats are not serious, and are propoganda, just because someone understood an implied reference to be to Salman Rushdie.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Of course I do. (EDIT: .... agree with women on bikes.)

But this person sat fairly safe in the USA, with relatives in an unsafe country, making large with the criticisms. Would you do that to your relatives?

Nope, I don't believe I would.

2nd EDIT. !!! :-
Last July, secret police in Tehran arrested her brother, Alireza Alinejad and two siblings of her former husband, in what she described as “hostage taking.”
Ah...... so maybe she is not that much concerned, after all.

Always hard to know the background in terms of motivations in these instances, I think.

 

[Twilight Hue]

A total nutter, it's true, but this crazed cleric is seeking her punishment for 'apostasy'. Not much to do with cycling, really.... is it?

I suppose that's going to be a tough one to find in the Quran.

 

[PruePhillip]

Your adhominem attack on Masih Alinejad does nothing to detract from the validity of the points she has raised with respect to women’s cycling.

He's just making the point that there a nutters on both sides of the argument.

 

[oldbadger]

Nope, I don't believe I would.

Nor would I.

Always hard to know the background in terms of motivations in these instances, I think.

I don't think it's always hard to figure out the motivations of journalists who want media coverage, and who criticise (say) Islam when they are Bahai sympathisers. I think I've got this one sorted.

But to exhort women in a foreign land to actions which would certainly expose them to serious dangers, such as not wearing the hijab in public places, ...which the link explained that she had done...... that's just foul.

 

[oldbadger]

I suppose that's going to be a tough one to find in the Quran.

..... or in the bible!
I remember girls having to ride motorcycles side-saddle through European cities when I was a teenager.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Sorry we've already had Salafism and ISIS, don't need more of that. What we actually need is for Islam to go back to it's roots instead of this Modernism it's been under in the past 200 years.
The Islam of 300 years ago was not the Islam following the fall of the Ottomans (despite their flaws).
And as for Shi'ism, well the Shi'ism of modern Iran is fake with no resemblance to the Gnostic tradition of historic Shi'ism. Babism (the occult movement that spawned the Baha'i's afterwards) basically killed Shi'ism and caused Shi'ites to start acting like Sunnis. If they accepted The Bab, then the mystical fire would have been lit. But instead they went the other way, and became basically just alternate-Sunnis, which is a parody of what Shi'ism actually was (again, Gnostic).

We need Islam to go back to the Sunnah and Ahlulbayt, that is what.

We don't need more reforms, the world is sick enough of terrorism. And Salafism has benefited nobody mate.

Salfi's and ISIS believe that they have gone back to the roots of Islam, as they are fundamentalist groups.

I am talking about reform as in the western world, where many muslims are not fundamentalists. They have liberal views in stark contrast to the Salafi's and ISIS as they are influenced by the liberal west.

 

[VoidoftheSun]

Salfi's and ISIS believe that they have gone back to the roots of Islam, as they are fundamentalist groups.

I am talking about reform as in the western world, where many muslims are not fundamentalists. They have liberal views in stark contrast to the Salafi's and ISIS as they are influenced by the liberal west.

As I already said in the previous post, you have it upside down.

Salafism and ISIS are not 'roots', they are reformist. "liberalism" also has origins in aspects of Islam, as it does more familiarly in Protestant Christianity.
And before you say, yes Salafism and ISIS are very strongly influenced by the liberal west, that is one of their main influences; albeit in a reactionary manner.


And again, I restate that it would be good if Islam actually went back to the classical period where we were thriving. Theologically we need to return back to the Sunnah and the Ahlulbayt because the mainstream Islamic world has become exactly what the Qur'an and Prophet fought against.

 

[Samael_Khan]

As I already said in the previous post, you have it upside down.

Salafism and ISIS are not 'roots', they are reformist. "liberalism" also has origins in aspects of Islam, as it does more familiarly in Protestant Christianity.
And before you say, yes Salafism and ISIS are very strongly influenced by the liberal west, that is one of their main influences; albeit in a reactionary manner.


And again, I restate that it would be good if Islam actually went back to the classical period where we were thriving. Theologically we need to return back to the Sunnah and the Ahlulbayt because the mainstream Islamic world has become exactly what the Qur'an and Prophet fought against.

Sorry, I don't think that Salafism and ISIS are influenced by the liberal west except in the reactionary way. They practice things seen as inhumane by the west.

You are a Shia (?), so if theologically Islam should go back to what you think the original Islam taught, then maybe. I definitely don't think we should go back to what the Sunni's thought.

 

[danieldemol]

He's just making the point that there a nutters on both sides of the argument.

To compare a nutter who is openly advocating violence to someone who is simply speaking truthfully about women’s rights at risk to herself and her family is more than a little lopsided.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I don't think it's always hard to figure out the motivations of journalists who want media coverage, and who criticise (say) Islam when they are Bahai sympathisers. I think I've got this one sorted.

I disagree. To me, people are entitled to opinions, and to expressing them. And gender specific rules around things like riding bikes are worthy of criticism.

Are they criticising it as a way to proselytize? Are they doing it to further their career? Are they doing it in defence of women's rights? Do they love their country and see segregation of women as a way of not maximizing the talent within the country?

All these things...or none...might apply in any given situation.

But to exhort women in a foreign land to actions which would certainly expose them to serious dangers, such as not wearing the hijab in public places, ...which the link explained that she had done...... that's just foul.

Maybe. Certainly if it's in the interests of furthering ones career.
But it's somewhat akin to telling women not to wear short skirts lest some lustful man attack them. Surely some of your ire is reserved for the theocracy demanding certain behaviours?

 

[oldbadger]

I disagree. To me, people are entitled to opinions, and to expressing them.

No probs..... and Yep, opinions are fine.

And gender specific rules around things like riding bikes are worthy of criticism.

For all who want to read about bike bans, quite a shocking situation for some to hear about, in a land where (say) gays get slow-hung on cranes in public...... ok...... read away.

Are they criticising it as a way to proselytize?

Well, this journalist does support Bahai promotions.

Are they doing it to further their career?

I reckon so. That's my opinion.

Are they doing it in defence of women's rights?

This journalist doesn't give a hoot for women in Iran, I reckon. I've already explained my opinion about that.

Do they love their country and see segregation of women as a way of not maximizing the talent within the country?

I don't know. I rather think she's very happy in the West ......

All these things...or none...might apply in any given situation.

Well some seem to be applying imo.

Maybe. Certainly if it's in the interests of furthering ones career.

Indeed.

But it's somewhat akin to telling women not to wear short skirts lest some lustful man attack them.

If you think so......
It's really about apostasy. She has been accused of apostasy.

Surely some of your ire is reserved for the theocracy demanding certain behaviours?

I don't sit in my chair seething about countries around the world with poor human rights histories, foreign cultures, differing religions, strange foreign policies etc.
But if any wanted to promote, say, Iran's gender policies, you just watch out for my posts.

What I do focus upon very quickly is nice safe folks sitting comfy, making their name by exhorting unsafe women (anybody) in other lands to stick their necks out. OK?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

What I do focus upon very quickly is nice safe folks sitting comfy, making their name by exhorting unsafe women (anybody) in other lands to stick their necks out. OK?

You don't need my permission.