Iraq Wall

[mohamedhassan]

can someone give me a consice reason why their there? I mean sadaam is gone WMD's was a fake so what are they doing there? if what they wanted was to quell any sort of violence they would have sent in UN forces not stayed there themselves, so anyone got a good reason for their presence?

 

[neves]

In all honesty, it reminded me of the Berlin Wall. It's a shame that America is now propagating what it fought against not too long ago.

What are some of the major differences between the Sunni and Shia that would cause anyone to think such a separation is necessary? I know the media claims one group wants to reform Iraq, while the other is completly against the reforms, but that is all I know.

If you look at history … there are no major differences… Muslims got so caught up on the minor issues that they forgot the big picture… I believe one of Satan’s Greater handy works… for if the Muslims did not take to sectarianism (which by the way is haram/ goes against Islam) then it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to say…the world would be enveloped in Islam…

 

[UnityNow101]

I honestly cannot understand why we are there either..We went in based upon faulty evidence, got rid of Saddam Hussein, and are now just hunkered down in a minature civil war. What is the measuring stick for success? When do we say we have won? When America's interests in the region are firmly set in place and our greedy hands are firmly upon the oil of Iraq, I guess. Nobody in the Bush Administration will own up to their mistakes and they believe that they are fighting the "terrorists." And most of the ignorant American people believe every word that comes out of the phony politicians mouths..Quite sickening actually.

 

[ayani]

i have heard they are going to stop building the wall at the request of the Iraqi govt. is this true?

shades of Palestine.... America has *no business* over there, and this war infuriates me. it has been horrendous in its human cost, and still flying out of anyone's control.

 

[mohamedhassan]

i have heard they are going to stop building the wall at the request of the Iraqi govt. is this true?

I heard the Iraqi gov't didn't even know about the wall

shades of Palestine....

and the same platform "fighting terrorists"

America has *no business* over there, and this war infuriates me. it has been horrendous in its human cost, and still flying out of anyone's control.

its sad to say the least

 

[neves]

If you look at history … there are no major differences… Muslims got so caught up on the minor issues that they forgot the big picture… I believe one of Satan’s Greater handy works… for if the Muslims did not take to sectarianism (which by the way is haram/ goes against Islam) then it wouldn’t be much of a stretch to say…the world would be enveloped in Islam…

Forgot to back up what I said...

Here is what’s in the Quran concerning sectarianism...


Quran Sura Al-E-Imran. (Chapter 3) (Note: Not whole sura just 10 line before and after the relative verses)
All food was lawful unto the Children of Israel, save that which Israel forbade himself, (in days) before the Torah was revealed. Say: Produce the Torah and read it (unto us) if ye are truthful. (93) And whoever shall invent a falsehood after that concerning Allah, such will be wrong-doers. (94) Say: Allah speaketh truth. So follow the religion of Abraham, the upright. He was not of the idolaters. (95) Lo! the first Sanctuary appointed for mankind was that at Becca, a blessed place, a guidance to the peoples; (96) Wherein are plain memorials (of Allah's guidance); the place where Abraham stood up to pray; and whosoever entereth it is safe. And pilgrimage to the House is a duty unto Allah for mankind, for him who can find a way thither. As for him who disbelieveth, (let him know that) lo! Allah is Independent of (all) creatures. (97) Say: O People of the Scripture! Why disbelieve ye in the revelations of Allah, when Allah (Himself) is Witness of what ye do? (98) Say: O People of the Scripture! Why drive ye back believers from the way of Allah, seeking to make it crooked, when ye are witnesses (to Allah's guidance)? Allah is not unaware of what ye do. (99) O ye who believe! If ye obey a party of those who have received the Scripture they will make you disbelievers after your belief. (100) How can ye disbelieve, when Allah's revelations are recited unto you, and His messenger is in your midst? He who holdeth fast to Allah, he indeed is guided unto a right path. (101) O ye who believe! Observe your duty to Allah with right observance, and die not save as those who have surrendered (unto Him) (102) And hold fast, all of you together, to the cable of Allah, and do not separate. And remember Allah's favour unto you: how ye were enemies and He made friendship between your hearts so that ye became as brothers by His grace; and (how) ye were upon the brink of an abyss of fire, and He did save you from it. Thus Allah maketh clear His revelations unto you, that haply ye may be guided, (103) And there may spring from you a nation who invite to goodness, and enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency. Such are they who are successful. (104) And be ye not as those who separated and disputed after the clear proofs had come unto them. For such there is an awful doom, (105) On the Day when (some) faces will be whitened and (some) faces will be blackened; and as for those whose faces have been blackened, it will be said unto them: Disbelieved ye after your (profession of) belief? Then taste the punishment for that ye disbelieved. (106) And as for those whose faces have been whitened, in the mercy of Allah they dwell for ever. (107) These are revelations of Allah. We recite them unto thee in truth. Allah willeth no injustice to (His) creatures. (108) Unto Allah belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth; and unto Allah all things are returned. (109) Ye are the best community that hath been raised up for mankind. Ye enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency; and ye believe in Allah. And if the People of the Scripture had believed it had been better for them. Some of them are believers; but most of them are evil-livers. (110) They will not harm you save a trifling hurt, and if they fight against you they will turn and flee. And afterward they will not be helped. (111) Ignominy shall be their portion wheresoever they are found save (where they grasp) a rope from Allah and a rope from men. They have incurred anger from their Lord, and wretchedness is laid upon them. That is because they used to disbelieve the revelations of Allah, and slew the prophets wrongfully. That is because they were rebellious and used to transgress. (112) They are not all alike. Of the People of the Scripture there is a staunch community who recite the revelations of Allah in the night season, falling prostrate (before Him). (113) They believe in Allah and the Last Day, and enjoin right conduct and forbid indecency, and vie one with another in good works. These are of the righteous. (114) And whatever good they do, they will not be denied the meed thereof. Allah is Aware of those who ward off (evil). (115)

Quran Sura Al-Hujraat (Chapter 49) (Note: Not whole sura just 10 line before and after the relative verse)


In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful. O ye who believe! Be not forward in the presence of Allah and His messenger, and keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is Hearer, Knower. (1) O ye who believe! Lift not up your voices above the voice of the Prophet, nor shout when speaking to him as ye shout one to another, lest your works be rendered vain while ye perceive not. (2) Lo! they who subdue their voices in the presence of the messenger of Allah, those are they whose hearts Allah hath proven unto righteousness. Theirs will be forgiveness and immense reward. (3) Lo! those who call thee from behind the private apartments, most of them have no sense. (4) And if they had had patience till thou camest forth unto them, it had been better for them. And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (5) O ye who believe! If an evil-liver bring you tidings, verify it, lest ye smite some folk in ignorance and afterward repent of what ye did. (6) And know that the messenger of Allah is among you. If he were to obey you in much of the government, ye would surely be in trouble; but Allah hath endeared the faith to you and hath beautified it in your hearts, and hath made disbelief and lewdness and rebellion hateful unto you. Such are they who are the rightly guided. (7) (It is) a bounty and a grace from Allah; and Allah is Knower, Wise. (8) And if two parties of believers fall to fighting, then make peace between them. And if one party of them doeth wrong to the other, fight ye that which doeth wrong till it return unto the ordinance of Allah; then, if it return, make peace between them justly, and act equitably. Lo! Allah loveth the equitable. (9) The believers are naught else than brothers. Therefore make peace between your brethren and observe your duty to Allah that haply ye may obtain mercy. (10) O ye who believe! Let not a folk deride a folk who may be better than they (are), not let women (deride) women who may be better than they are; neither defame one another, nor insult one another by nicknames. Bad is the name of lewdness after faith. And whoso turneth not in repentance, such are evil-doers. (11) O ye who believe! Shun much suspicion; for lo! some suspicion is a crime. And spy not, neither backbite one another. Would one of you love to eat the flesh of his dead brother? Ye abhor that (so abhor the other)! And keep your duty (to Allah). Lo! Allah is Relenting, Merciful. (12) O mankind! Lo! We have created you from male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware. (13) The wandering Arabs say: We believe. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Ye believe not, but rather say "We submit," for the faith hath not yet entered into your hearts. Yet, if ye obey Allah and His messenger, He will not withhold from you aught of (the reward of) your deeds. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. (14) The (true) believers are those only who believe in Allah and His messenger and afterward doubt not, but strive with their wealth and their lives for the cause of Allah. Such are the sincere. (15) Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Would ye teach Allah your religion, when Allah knoweth all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth, and Allah is Aware of all things? (16) They make it a favour unto thee (Muhammad) that they have surrendered (unto Him). Say: Deem not your Surrender a favour unto me; but Allah doth confer a favour on you, inasmuch as He hath led you to the Faith, if ye are earnest. (17) Lo! Allah knoweth the Unseen of the heavens and the earth. And Allah is Seer of what ye do. (18)

 

[maro]

well , i am not a political expert , but i believe that if any other counrty in the world lost its police and army "like iraq" for only 2 0r 3 days (the country's immune system )
that will be enough to turn it into a mess and disorder, and all the latent viruses of bigotry will float on the surface ,

so iraq is not a special case ,

what makes it so special is that there are some people with hidden agendas who want to view muslims as people who are unable to co exist with others ,even those who are very close to their beliefs ,

even with each other ,

which of course is not true ,because the fanatic groups in iraq are not the muslim representatives ,neither the shia nor the sunna ,

also ,i can't find what TT said about the hidden american hand behind many of these operations hard to believe ,because they benefit from them more than anyone else ,

they can strengthen the idea of the sunni _shia split (although the fact they lived there together peacefully for centeruries ) , and find an excuse for their illegal existance in iraq

 

[des]

I'm not sure that there is any conspiracy (except the one against telling the truth!) of planned chaos. But if they didn't know that overthrowing a dictator in a country that never existed before a dictator would result in chaos, then they definitely haven't read much history! In fact the same thing happened when the British invaded Iraq. Also reminds me a lot of the so-called sectarian conflicts that arose in the former Yugoslavia, a country also held together by an authoritarian ruler, albeit a more benevolent one. Or the ethnic cleansing in Ruwanda.

I would disagree with anyone suggested that the "sectarian violence' really has that much to do with Islam, anymore than what went on in Ireland had much to do with Christianity. There are tribal feuds and so forth, and since there is really no government that is universally respected (that is the Bush admin. fault-- and there were MANY blunders on this one), there is nothing to restrain these volatile Hatfield and McCoy like (except with awesome force) struggles. I am sure that on occasion they were helped along, but the amount of chaos in this "country" is so high that it is pretty much a guarantee that something like this occurs. And I can't really think the Bush admin is so sorry about it. After all, this is not a peace making type administration, but ones whose interests are served by war (think Blackwater, think Halliburton, etc. etc.).

In fact there are so many blunders in this war (not just the war itself) but the break up the army, the "management of the country", etc etc that it is hard to believe any administration could be so incompetent. Sadly, I think it is. But once again, I think they aren't upset enough about it. For instance they haven't worked with Iran or Syria and they aren't trying to get "gang peace pacts" (for lack of a better word), etc.

The Bush admin took a stable government with an authoritarian ruler (strange that they don't care much about other authoritarian rulers but that's another subject) and turned it into an unstable, chaotic, incredibly dangerous place. They have killed more innocent Iraqis than the thug, Hussain could ever manage. So in a way, the wall is just one more episode in the misadventures of the Bush admin going somewhere he never should have been.

The Bush admin also used the sadness and fear of 9-11 to his own twisted ends (or perhaps actually those of the neocons.) and the press sat back and imitated their words over and over.


--des

 

[Laila]

i have heard they are going to stop building the wall at the request of the Iraqi govt. is this true?

No, they are carrying on with the wall against the objection of the Iraqi's. What a joke; where is democracy? U.S. has not brought "democracy" to Iraq.

 

[Laila]

Welcome to the forum Neve, I am in total agreement with the points you've made.

 

[neves]

thanks for the welcome ...