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Irish abortion referendum

Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
David1967 said:
That is an issue. What to do with the unwanted kids. Real issue. I'll give you that. But I don't believe killing them is a viable or moral option.
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Calling them kids puts a burden of proof upon you that cannot be well supported by any means that I am aware of. The Bible is not even clear on this since there are at least a couple of passages that indicate a fetus was not considered a "person".
 
Father Heathen

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone said:
Calling them kids puts a burden of proof upon you that cannot be well supported by any means that I am aware of. The Bible is not even clear on this since there are at least a couple of passages that indicate a fetus was not considered a "person".
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“And should men quarrel and hit a pregnant woman, and she miscarries but there is no fatality, he shall surely be punished, when the woman’s husband makes demands of him, and he shall give [restitution] according to the judges’ [orders]. But if there is a fatality, you shall give a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise." - Exodus 21:22-25
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Father Heathen said:
“And should men quarrel and hit a pregnant woman, and she miscarries but there is no fatality, he shall surely be punished, when the woman’s husband makes demands of him, and he shall give [restitution] according to the judges’ [orders]. But if there is a fatality, you shall give a life for a life, an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand, a foot for a foot, a burn for a burn, a wound for a wound, a bruise for a bruise." - Exodus 21:22-25
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That's one. The other is even more problematic for anti-abortion people. The test of an unfaithful wife describes a chemical abortion:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers+5:11-29&version=NIV

A short excerpt:

" 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water that brings a curse enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”"
 
David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Father Heathen said:
Okay.

So how many are you planning to adopt?
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Obviously no one changes the others mind on this subject. Its like the gun debate. Peoples opinions are generally deep seated and not bendable. You and I both have children. We love them dearly. We each for personal reasons have differing opinions on this subject. So, adoption? No. What to do with them? Good question. I just think we can ,as a society, put our heads together and come up with a better solution than abortion.
Respectfully
 
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
David1967 said:
Obviously no one changes the others mind on this subject. Its like the gun debate. Peoples opinions are generally deep seated and not bendable. You and I both have children. We love them dearly. We each for personal reasons have differing opinions on this subject. So, adoption? No. What to do with them? Good question. I just think we can ,as a society, put our heads together and come up with a better solution than abortion.
Respectfully
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It appears that you think we are advocating abortion. That is not the case. It merely needs to be an option for women at times. Women will need to be able to make that choice. If you don't like the idea of abortion then work to provide viable alternatives that a woman will choose.

Force is not the answer.
 
outlawState

outlawState

Deism is dead
Subduction Zone said:
It appears that you think we are advocating abortion. That is not the case. It merely needs to be an option for women at times. Women will need to be able to make that choice. If you don't like the idea of abortion then work to provide viable alternatives that a woman will choose.

Force is not the answer.
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As others have said, this referendum has little to do with the case of Savita Halappanavar. The Republic of Ireland's Health Service Executive (HSE) is understood to have made an out-of-court settlement with the husband of a woman who died in hospital after a miscarriage, so hers was a case of medical negligence, and nothing to do with the law.

Abortion is pre-eminently used by prostitutes and women of loose morals to facilitate their life styles, as a method of contraception after the event, in fact.

So the solution is, abstain from prostitution. Is it so unreasonable? "Deu 23:17 No Israelite man or woman is to become a shrine prostitute."
 
Woberts

Woberts

The Perfumed Seneschal
outlawState said:
As others have said, this referendum has little to do with the case of Savita Halappanavar. The Republic of Ireland's Health Service Executive (HSE) is understood to have made an out-of-court settlement with the husband of a woman who died in hospital after a miscarriage, so hers was a case of medical negligence, and nothing to do with the law.

Abortion is pre-eminently used by prostitutes and women of loose morals to facilitate their life styles, as a method of contraception after the event, in fact.

So the solution is, abstain from prostitution. Is it so unreasonable? "Deu 23:17 No Israelite man or woman is to become a shrine prostitute."
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People not being prostitutes will stop abortions?
Am I the only one who sees a problem with this statement?
 
Yerda

Yerda

Veteran Member
Subduction Zone

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Jayhawker Soule said:

I know nothing about The Irish Times, but I sincerely hope that they're right, Now, if we can only protect Planned Parenthood from Trump and his sycophants.
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I saw more than just that site that said the same thing. The exit polls are rather clear.

What surprised me was that I thought that Ireland was a civilized country. It turns out that:

"The counting of votes will begin at 09:00 local time on Saturday."

Are you kidding me?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44241521
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
outlawState said:
Abortion is pre-eminently used by prostitutes and women of loose morals to facilitate their life styles, as a method of contraception after the event, in fact.
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It is not just women.
Men whose choices result in the responsibilities that come with parenthood also get to dump the responsibilities by offing their progeny.

And why would a man bother with responsible sex when he can foist the responsibilities off onto his partner? Why should a man feel any responsibility for the baby, when the woman can just decide "S/he is just a clump of cells. Kill it." regardless of what the father thinks any way?

My point is this:
Feticide rights are more about the fathers than the mothers. If men didn't make babies that they don't want, and walk away, women would be less likely to abort their children.
Tom
 
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