Irish pastor on trial for 'insulting Islam'

[9-10ths_Penguin]

This is quie interesting...http://www.svpvril.com/OACL.html

Do you really find that web site impressive?

Do you also find his stuff about "aether physics" and "vibrational energy" to be interesting?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Does advocacy play a role?
I see it as essential, even in a less adversarial environment.

The major problems I see with our tort system......
- There is no sanction against frivolous, SLAPP, or vexatious suits.
- The system requires only a dispute of facts to proceed to court. Evidence isn't required.
- The system is lengthy, costly & cumbersome.
- Lawyers, & particularly judges are not held very accountable for misbehavior.

Advocates can take part to help you. But you will be questioned by the judge who will hold all the evidence.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Do you really find that web site impressive?

Do you also find his stuff about "aether physics" and "vibrational energy" to be interesting?

As I said interesting not impressive
They seem to host all sorts of strange opinion.
As I pointed out this seems to be by some legal protest group.
neverthe less much of it is factual in an historic sense.
They clearly do not care for the more commercial and judge led aspects of American law.

 

[Revoltingest]

Advocates can take part to help you. But you will be questioned by the judge who will hold all the evidence.

Sounds OK.
Loser pay system?

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

An evangelical pastor is in a Northern Irish court because he called Islam "satanic" and "heathen" during a sermon he had streamed over the Internet.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...rts-with-hour-of-service-on-dvd-34284348.html

From the report: "He faces two charges - improper use of a public electronic communications network and causing a grossly offensive message to be sent by means of a public electronic communications network - after remarks made at Whitewell Metropolitan Tabernacle were streamed online."

What do people think of this? Should it be a crime to condemn a belief system in this manner? Should the law differentiate between condemning a belief system and its adherents?

Personally, I think this is being used as a blasphemy law to silence Islam's critics.

Don't be ridiculous.

Many countries, including Britain, have laws against spreading hate and hate speech itself. I guess this is the same.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I still can't find exactly what was said, other than inserting words in quotations such as calling Islam "satanic." But I did find this, and I especially recommend this to all the Muslim bashers.
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/po...cuted-for-calling-Islam-a-satanic-belief.html
A London-based imam, Muhammad Al-Hussaini declared, “If Pastor McConnell is convicted and imprisoned I will go to prison with him."
Al-Hussaini strongly objects to the prosecution on grounds of free speech and claims that it is a matter of "deep dismay" that a "fellow citizen is being subjected to criminal proceedings, when at no time have any of the statements he made incited physical harm to anyone."
Northern Ireland’s first minister Peter Robinson also threw himself into the fray, coming to the Pastor’s defense.
Apparently they are invoking some law passed in 2003. It kinda makes me laugh though, because if America had a similar law non-violent drug offenders would be replaced as the prison majority as they would be replaced by legions of venom-spewing priests and pastors.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Don't be ridiculous.

Many countries, including Britain, have laws against spreading hate and hate speech itself. I guess this is the same.

Those are aimed at protecting individuals, not organisations or ideologies. Ideologies have no rights that can be violated by hate speech. The laws against hate speech are applied in a disproportionate way in the UK - it's harder to criticise Islam or mock it because some Muslims don't know how to handle it. So instead of attempting to understand it the criticism or mockery is branded 'racist' or 'Islamophobic'. Take this video of Maryam Namazie giving a lecture on Islamism to members Goldsmith Islamic Society for instance.

Here are a bunch of second-or-further generation immigrants calling an Iranian-born ex-Muslim - who is fluent in Arabic and has seen first-hand the worst of her former religion - an 'Islamophobe' and are brushing her arguments away as if they knew better - simply because they were uncomfortable with what she had to say. And they were whining about how she was violating their "safe space" at university. Pff.

Further, Islamophobia has been given its own category of crime under law - and it is left to the 'victim' to decide whether something is Islamophobic or not. That will be abused horrendously because it's nothing more than a blasphemy law in disguise.

 

[Tomorrows_Child]

Those are aimed at protecting individuals, not organisations or ideologies. Ideologies have no rights that can be violated by hate speech. The laws against hate speech are applied in a disproportionate way in the UK - it's harder to criticise Islam or mock it because some Muslims don't know how to handle it. So instead of attempting to understand it the criticism or mockery is branded 'racist' or 'Islamophobic'. Take this video of Maryam Namazie giving a lecture on Islamism to members Goldsmith Islamic Society for instance.

Here are a bunch of second-or-further generation immigrants calling an Iranian-born ex-Muslim - who is fluent in Arabic and has seen first-hand the worst of her former religion - an 'Islamophobe' and are brushing her arguments away as if they knew better - simply because they were uncomfortable with what she had to say. And they were whining about how she was violating their "safe space" at university. Pff.

Further, Islamophobia has been given its own category of crime under law - and it is left to the 'victim' to decide whether something is Islamophobic or not. That will be abused horrendously because it's nothing more than a blasphemy law in disguise.

Islamaphobia falls into the same category as anti-semitism or racism based on someone's skin colour, ethnicity etc. You can have a problem with that if you wish.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Islamaphobia falls into the same category as anti-semitism or racism based on someone's skin colour, ethnicity etc. You can have a problem with that if you wish.

So if you don't like Islam, you're the same as a racist? That is ****ing ridiculous. You don't have to like anything.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

So if you don't like Islam, you're the same as a racist? That is ****ing ridiculous. You don't have to like anything.

No one says you have to like Islam, you can hate it if you like. The Law makes no judgment on what you think, only on what you do, say
or what you encourage others to do and say.

The laws cover race, faith, sexuality and disability.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Islamaphobia falls into the same category as anti-semitism or racism based on someone's skin colour, ethnicity etc. You can have a problem with that if you wish.

Yet it has been given its own distinct category - as if hate crime is not enough. I think there are genuine instances of Islamophobia in the world - people assuming Muslims (by dint of being Muslims) are terrorists; people mistaking Sikhs and their places of worship for Muslims and their places of worship etc. But I don't think it deserves its own distinct category under law - and certainly not when it will be the victim who decides if something said or done is Islamophobic. Like the term this new category of crime derives from; Islamophobic hate crimes will be used to silence genuine criticism of Islam in the name of stopping 'racism'.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Islamophobic hate crimes will be used to silence genuine criticism of Islam in the name of stopping 'racism'.

There is a legit difference, however, between criticizing Islam and having a real fear and hatred of Muslims. But we really don't apply the -phobia suffix very well, either, as we see where we use homophobia as a catch-all term that includes phobias and prejudices against homosexuals. Unfortunately we are at a point where the issue has two sides taking center stage, one side not wanting to hear even valid criticisms of Islam and the Koran, and the other side that essentially cries for their daddy to check under their bed at night to make sure the "big bad scawy Muswim" isn't hiding there, or in the closet.
But, then again, this America, and logic debate and thoughts just are not wanted or appreciated in America because we prefer our emotional ruckus over having to think things through.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

This case has finally come to trial and the District Judge has thrown it out. As I predicted, he ruled that the pastor's words were in no way a violation of the act under which he was being prosecuted.

 

[Altfish]

This case has finally come to trial and the District Judge has thrown it out. As I predicted, he ruled that the pastor's words were in no way a violation of the act under which he was being prosecuted.

Great news, I hope the Crown Prosecution Service has to pay the costs.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

This case has finally come to trial and the District Judge has thrown it out. As I predicted, he ruled that the pastor's words were in no way a violation of the act under which he was being prosecuted.

Is it even available what the pastor said in the first place? I couldn't find it anywhere when last I checked, which makes it pretty much impossible to even form a good opinion, because quite literally for all we know he could have called Islam the demon spawn of Satan - end news report quote - and followed it by something like but don't go out of your way to hate or harm them because it's not what Jesus would have wanted.

 

[Akivah]

Yet it has been given its own distinct category - as if hate crime is not enough. I think there are genuine instances of Islamophobia in the world - people assuming Muslims (by dint of being Muslims) are terrorists; people mistaking Sikhs and their places of worship for Muslims and their places of worship etc.

The very word "Islamophobia" is bad. It presumes that it is a phobia to speak out against bad Islamic behavior.

 

[Wirey]

That is so chilling....

Thank goodness in Canaduh we have this:

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

Tell it to Ernest Zundel.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The very word "Islamophobia" is bad. It presumes that it is a phobia to speak out against bad Islamic behavior.

Aside from the examples I gave, I agree. The term is very badly abused by Islamist apologists.

 

[columbus]

This case has finally come to trial and the District Judge has thrown it out. As I predicted, he ruled that the pastor's words were in no way a violation of the act under which he was being prosecuted.

I'm glad that the legal proceedings ended well.
I have a different question though. If whatever the pastor said caused this much trouble, his superiors ought to bring some discipline down on him. Any sign of that?
Tom

 

[YmirGF]

Tell it to Ernest Zundel.

These were enacted after Mr. Zundel's 4.4232 seconds of fame...