Irony of the evolutionary belief

[YoursTrue]

It is impossible to know the answer to this question since we don't have original manuscripts plus, we don't know if it was part of an oral tradition prior to it being written.

But there's a serious problem within the narrative, namely that it states the God "hardened pharaoh's heart", which puts the onus on God. In Jewish circles, it's considered to be the single most controversial verse in all of Torah as why would God supposedly do this, thus leading to the death of so many?

Not all problems are solvable.

Could be God allowed Pharaoh's heart to go his (Pharaoh's) own way by NOT softening it somehow, as He did, let's say, with Esther and the king, softening the king's heart to not kill the Jews. Regardless of that, however, the manuscripts are ascertained to be pretty well accepted to be passed down, along with Masoretic text as you no doubt know, fastidiously from a certain point onward. So -- to be honest in my New York City way -- to think it all was made up even as a script -- sometime over 2,000 years ago and the whole thing is mythical is, in my mind, slightly preposterous. I am speaking only of the relating of the manuscripts and the summation of putting what is considered holy together.

 

[John53]

For me there is evidence. Naturally you don't believe that Moses had that rather big discussion with Pharaoh, but it makes sense to me. I had an employer (a lawyer) who told me when he found out that I believe in God and the Bible, thinking he was funny -- if the end comes why doesn't He announce it on TV? I said God doesn't have to, the Bible has the answer. He, of course, didn't believe me to the best of my knowledge he still does as he does. But -- we shall see what we shall see and of course, I do hope the best for you. I can't speak for others but I do know what I found at the beginning of my journey, only God can give you faith.

Doesn't address the questions I asked.

I don't have anything against you or your beliefs but it is pointless trying to have a discussion with you. This was my final attempt. Good luck with life.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

LOL, that made me laugh. OK, maybe a butterfly did not "evolve" to become a lion -- after all -- a butterfly has wings and a lion does not unless it's in a comic strip, but -- where is the EVIDENCE? OK, can't call it proof that a butterfly did or did not become a lion and, of course, the common excuse (answer) is that it takes a lot of time to have sponges evolve to something else. I do not go along with all that supposition.

How many times have you been informed of your absurd use of strawmen?
How many more times before it will sink in?

How does it make you look, do you think, that you insist on doubling down on your fallacies?

 

[YoursTrue]

If that's what the evidence shows why would they not believe it to be the truth?


Which cases are they lying about? It's hard to understand what you're trying to say unless you're specific.



Yet you have no real evidence of God. If there was we would not be having this discussion.



I'm not really sure what you mean by this or what it has to do with what I asked.

Let me go over some thoughts with you, John53, since this is a discussion to an extent. To me, life itself is the evidence of God. But that is because I look at things differently than I did before I believed. I'm sure you're familiar with the song "Amazing Grace." I love that song because it describes me to a degree. I didn't always believe.
If I were not alive I would not see life, of course. Some people think we were somewhere alive before we were born. The Bible does not substantiate that. This life is not all there is, according to what the Bible says. In fact the Bible says if anyone could see God while on earth, that one would die because the strength of seeing God is too much for him. Moses was told that. He wanted to see God's face, but could not.
Exodus 33 - Moses asked to see God's glory. But God said he will make all his goodness pass before his face, and will declare before his name; and will favor the one whom he favors, and I will show mercy to the one to whom he will show mercy. But notice what he says next: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.”
I conclude that God did not make us so we can see him personally and physically whenever we want to as we live on this earth.

 

[YoursTrue]

Doesn't address the questions I asked.

I don't have anything against you or your beliefs but it is pointless trying to have a discussion with you. This was my final attempt. Good luck with life.

Oh, ok. I answered you before I read this. Thank you.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, but in an aggressive way that becomes considered normal and moral, thus the antithesis of the Gospel.

Let's say that's true (the antithesis of the Gospel). I won't conclude in terms of what is said to happen, yet I was thinking recently of tribal warfare even today. And they were supposed to follow his commandments as a nation or group. People are taught, children are taught. And it was taught for the Jews to teach their children about God. Going further, there are genetic qualities that distinguish groups, and some are said to originate in Africa while others staked out genetic claims in places like the middle east and thinking of Genghis Khan, etc. That's where I shall leave that thought for the moment.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Let me go over some thoughts with you, John53, since this is a discussion to an extent. To me, life itself is the evidence of God. But that is because I look at things differently than I did before I believed. I'm sure you're familiar with the song "Amazing Grace." I love that song because it describes me to a degree. I didn't always believe.
If I were not alive I would not see life, of course. Some people think we were somewhere alive before we were born. The Bible does not substantiate that. This life is not all there is, according to what the Bible says. In fact the Bible says if anyone could see God while on earth, that one would die because the strength of seeing God is too much for him. Moses was told that. He wanted to see God's face, but could not.
Exodus 33 - Moses asked to see God's glory. But God said he will make all his goodness pass before his face, and will declare before his name; and will favor the one whom he favors, and I will show mercy to the one to whom he will show mercy. But notice what he says next: “You cannot see my face, for no man can see me and live.”
I conclude that God did not make us so we can see him personally and physically whenever we want to as we live on this earth.

The undetectable extra-dimensional goblin engineers made life. They say we can't reach them because we are primitive puny humans that can't reach beyond the 4 dimensions of space-time.

1. life exists - this is evidence that goblin engineers made life
2. we don't know about other dimensions - this matches the goblin's predictions that we can't reach their dimension


Checkmate, agoblinist!
All hail the mighty goblins!

 

[IndigoChild5559]

OK, maybe a butterfly did not "evolve" to become a lion

Again, your response just makes me sad. I cannot imagine trying to navigate the world with so little education.

 

[YoursTrue]

The brain is, physical.

That is one reason in part why ideas can be inculcated.

 

[YoursTrue]

it is not just idea or speculation only, and haven’t been for 150 years, as it have been substantiated with verifiable evidence, that the theory of Evolution is factual information about biodiversity through genetic variations to speciation.

There are 5 alternative mechanisms to Evolution, and each mechanism have been tested, via observations of evidence, not just with fossils, but more importantly DNA testing, to show common ancestry between species and species, between subspecies and subspecies.

And more important, it has been recognised as science, by other disciplines and fields of Natural Sciences.

The only lying I see are from creationists, particularly YEC creationists and Intelligent Design proponents, who are also creationists pretending not to be creationists, particularly misinformation & propaganda published by organisations like AnswersInGenesis, Creation Ministries International, and the Discovery Institute. It is these organisations and groups of people who spread pseudoscience fantasies.

Tell me, YoursTrue.

is it only Natural Selection you have problem with?

Or do you also have problems with Genetic Drift, Mutations, Gene Flow or Genetic Hitchhiking?

It's the entire idea that there is no higher power considered with intelligence enabling the mechanism of life.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

It's the entire idea that there is no higher power considered with intelligence enabling the mechanism of life.

Right.

In other words, your problem with this well established scientific theory, is that it doesn't include your a priori religious beliefs.

Great argument you got there.

 

[YoursTrue]

Again, your response just makes me sad. I cannot imagine trying to navigate the world with so little education.

lol, really...you mean education to agree with you about evolution? no need for me to go any further with this

 

[IndigoChild5559]

lol, really...you mean education to agree with you about evolution? no need for me to go any further with this

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me. I am perfectly fine with you disagreeing.

I'm speaking of a lack of education. You are dismissing evolution, but you don't know the basics of the theory. Can a person truly reject something they don't understand?

 

[cladking]

Now you say lions target the slowest looking individuals. How is that NOT searching the niche for the least fit?

Wait, don't tell me you still don't understand what "fit" means in evolutionary context?
Didn't you say a few posts back that "everybody" understands what "survival of the fittest" means?


I love "debating" with people like you. I actually don't have to do much. Just let you talk and you refute yourself.

The ability of believers to distort reality and perception to fit their preconceptions is absolute when those beliefs are "science".

I said nobody can predict which individuals will survive and which will not because humans don't have the ability to make such predictions. We can only reduce reality to experiment, not predict it. I said all individuals are equally fit as well and common sense should tell anyone reading these words that this doesn't apply to the lane, sick, and dying. It doesn't apply to the old or the very young. It doesn't apply to the mouse playing with a cat or an earthworm stretched out on a road.

But somebody wants to ascribe the ability to predict the future and to identify the less fit to an animal that isn't even conscious!!@!!

Nothing here will be addressed. It will be handwaved, ignored, and strawmen created. I will be insulted and then lectured about the Evolution.

What irony!!!

Believers in science are the holiest of all thous. You can't see the hand in front of your face if you stare hard enough at your own nose. You can't see anything at all if your beliefs are strong enough.

 

[YoursTrue]

I doubt there is such a thing as intelligence.

is there such a thing as stupid?

 

[cladking]

LOL, that made me laugh. OK, maybe a butterfly did not "evolve" to become a lion -- after all -- a butterfly has wings and a lion does not unless it's in a comic strip, but -- where is the EVIDENCE? OK, can't call it proof that a butterfly did or did not become a lion and, of course, the common excuse (answer) is that it takes a lot of time to have sponges evolve to something else. I do not go along with all that supposition.

If a butterfly in China can cause a hurricane in the Atlantic seven days later imagine what it can do in a few million years!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[cladking]

is there such a thing as stupid?

I regret to say there obviously is. We all do it but some live in stupidville. It is possible to make the same silly and obvious mistake for a lifetime but after you discover it you're supposed to stop.

Science changes one funeral at a time and this is in reference to peers and real scientists dying. The rest of us and almost all believers in science have little impact on science or scientific beliefs.

In the last 50 years stupid has run amok and the last few years are stupid on steroids.

 

[YoursTrue]

It has nothing to do with agreeing with me. I am perfectly fine with you disagreeing.

I'm speaking of a lack of education. You are dismissing evolution, but you don't know the basics of the theory. Can a person truly reject something they don't understand?

I've gone over the basics with others and to an extent in school. It's detailed, and the idea that abiogenesis is taught to be not part of the process of evolution is not something I agree with. I understand the concept. By the way, I have explained that when I went to school and thereafter I believed for a long enough time that evolution as taught in general is true. I no longer do.

 

[YoursTrue]

If a butterfly in China can cause a hurricane in the Atlantic seven days later imagine what it can do in a few million years!!!!!!!!!!!

imagine that.

 

[YoursTrue]

I regret to say there obviously is. We all do it but some live in stupidville. It is possible to make the same silly and obvious mistake for a lifetime but after you discover it you're supposed to stop.

Science changes one funeral at a time and this is in reference to peers and real scientists dying. The rest of us and almost believer in science has little impact on science or scientific beliefs.

In the last 50 years stupid has run amok and the last few years are stupid on steroids.

True, they don't want to see beyond the frame. And fight to keep pushing to be in it. It is a shame, I agree. But! that's the way it is and we will see, I hope and believe.