Irony of the evolutionary belief

[ElishaElijah]

I have read the Bible through more then once over the past 70 years, and studied in in a number of classes including the factual history and archaeology behind the Bible. Of course, you take a literal view of the Bible from an ancient tribal perspective, and avoid confronting the actual history of how the Bible was compiled, edited and redacted without provenance authorship or original texts, You are also intentionally ignorant of the problems with objectively verified science and the known history that is in conflict with the Bible. You are essentially out of touch with reality as it can be known today. The heavens do not revolve around the earth. and our earth and universe is billions of years old. It is physically impossible that there was ever a Noah's flood.

Well, when you take an allegorical view of the Bible, you can make up whatever you want to as far as meaning and application.
The Literal view encompasses all aspects of language, figures of speech, parables, imagery to interpret the meaning of what the Author is communicating.
Your comment is so dishonest and I would say you studied the Bible and came up with your view you missed the whole meaning. Next time you tell someone you enjoyed the sunset or sunrise I hope they correct you and you start using the correct terms… That you enjoyed the beginning and end of the last rotation, it was beautiful! Enjoy the spin today

 

[shunyadragon]

I have no intention to misrepresent, nor wander from our direct dialogue. What I'm suggesting, is the earth may be acting like a synapse in relation to other inhabited planets and planetary systems. Whether this seems more Vedic in appearance is moot. I understand the universe to be God or the All and that which is yet to be "created" is where my personal stance may differ from others pantheistic types. I'm a Panentheist, hence the "en" - clusion of what is not included or acknowledged as part of the universal paradigm of Pantheism. The universe is the universe and most see no need to include anything else, similar to 0 being enough as opposed to adding an additional - 0 in mathematics to help balance out the unknown.

Well . . . ah, this is entirely different from where our discussion began. I call that wandering, which you did not address clearly nor answer the questions..

What you are presenting above has not been mentioned with clarity before, and not exactly a Panentheistic belief. Something like the Gaia hypotheses on the universe scale.

 

[Balthazzar]

Well . . . ah, this is entirely different from where our discussion began. I call that wandering, which you did not address clearly nor answer the questions..

What you are presenting above has not been mentioned with clarity before, and not exactly a Panentheistic belief. Something like the Gaia hypotheses on the universe scale.

The cookie cutter rendition of intelligent design may seem to be a stretch, but ... that's not to suggest an impossibility. My pan en theistic view as understood by myself may be similar to Vedic philosophy or Gaia, but It's panentheism or a branch of panentheism. To answer directly.

 

[shunyadragon]

Well, when you take an allegorical view of the Bible, you can make up whatever you want to as far as meaning and application.
The Literal view encompasses all aspects of language, figures of speech, parables, imagery to interpret the meaning of what the Author is communicating.
Your comment is so dishonest and I would say you studied the Bible and came up with your view you missed the whole meaning. Next time you tell someone you enjoyed the sunset or sunrise I hope they correct you and you start using the correct terms… That you enjoyed the beginning and end of the last rotation, it was beautiful! Enjoy the spin today

Well, yes it easy to make up anything you want when you believe in ancient tribal religions, such as a literal belief in the Bible. You can believe a world flood, dragons a diverse selection of Gods, other supernatural creatures, or a universe less than 10,000 years old. Yes this is the belief of those that wrote and compiled the Pentateuch and believed by the authors of the NT of the whole meaning tof the text. This represents why ancient tribal world views are totally disconnected with the reality of the real universe we know through science and history today. Christians try to desperately deal with the contradictions with just plain denial, and many different interpretations to justify this conundrum, which is unresolvable.

Contemporary science and academic history simply deals with the objective verifiable evidence of the physical nature of our universe, history of life and humanity, without considering the many confusing and contradictory religious beliefs in the ancient history of humanity.

 

[shunyadragon]

The cookie cutter rendition of intelligent design may seem to be a stretch, but ... that's not to suggest an impossibility. My pan en theistic view as understood by myself may be similar to Vedic philosophy or Gaia, but It's panentheism or a branch of panentheism. To answer directly.

Impossible?!?!!? The Theological Intelligent Design proposal as is does not represent a possibility until the proponents can come up with a legitimate hypothesis to falsify a religious belief. It is NOT a viable scientific hypothesis. Actually no subjective religious beliefs can be falsified by scientific methods including your beliefs. The problem with 'Intelligent Design is that that it claims to be falsifiable by scientific methods. It is in the realm of trying to falsify claims of the existence of dragons, purple people eaters, unicorns, elves and dwarfs.

There is also a contradiction with your belief in a Panentheistic belief and the claims of "Intelligent Design." Panentheism does not claim that a knowable 'hands on' Theistic God that believers in "Intelligent Design" desire to justify.

 

[Balthazzar]

Again, again and again . . . There is no question God did dished out the punishments as specifically described in the Pentateuch. The above simply represents we should give up any anthropomorphic hands on Intelligent Designer God, as well as things like the falt earth and a geocentric universe some still believe today.


Possible?!?!? There are a lot of things that are possible, but the evidence clearly supports IF God exists God is more likely a Panentheistic or Baha'i view of God where God Creates, and Reveals his message and attributes of God reflected in a spiritual evolution in which old human ancient cultural views mist pass away.

The anthropomorphic "hands on God or Gods like ourselves" described in the Bible is terribly unlikely.

I missed this one. I think I'll stay within the paradigm that God has a less hands on approach as you suggested, but not negate the possible interventions when and if a malady is required to be addressed for the healing. Even if and when our own biology suggests that we evolve and adapt according to our needs, there are times when intervention is required. As I stated prior, if I don't draw from what we already know and experience, what else is there to draw our paradigms from?

 

[Balthazzar]

Impossible?!?!!? The Theological Intelligent Design proposal as is does not represent a possibility until the proponents can come up with a legitimate hypothesis to falsify a religious belief. It is NOT a viable scientific hypothesis. Actually no subjective religious beliefs can be falsified by scientific methods including your beliefs. The problem with 'Intelligent Design is that that it claims to be falsifiable by scientific methods.

There is also a contradiction with your belief in a Panentheistic belief and the claims of "Intelligent Design." Panentheism does not claim that a knowable 'hands on' Theistic God that believers in "Intelligent Design" desire to justify.

The cookie cutter models of perception are not a foreign method of discourse, obviously. I offered you my view, to which you reject based on a cookie cut model of what you choose to utilize as a source for your disagreement.

 

[Balthazzar]

Ok, so on the right we have creationist making a case for intelligent design and on the left we have physics, cause and effect scenarios, and an evolution of consciousness ... I think that's the argument, anyway. Question: Does this matter? What will an answer profit us?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Well, when you take an allegorical view of the Bible, you can make up whatever you want to as far as meaning and application.

That is just not the case.

 

[ElishaElijah]

That is just not the case.

That is exactly the case, by what people communicate about the Bible who “claim” they read and studied it prove by their comments that they don’t understand and walking in the dark.

 

[shunyadragon]

That is exactly the case, by what people communicate about the Bible who “claim” they read and studied it prove by their comments that they don’t understand and walking in the dark.

Questioning others as to whether they have read and studied the Bible because they do not agree with you is a fallacy an
'appeal appeal to (personal) authority." There are many scholars that spend their lives studying and researching the Bible and many disagree as to what the conclusions are. In this case you are not an authority that could reject other interpretations, because they disagree with you
Again , , , you have not responded to the following:

Well, yes it easy to make up anything you want when you believe in ancient tribal religions, such as a literal belief in the Bible. You can believe a world flood, dragons a diverse selection of Gods, other supernatural creatures, or a universe less than 10,000 years old. Yes this is the belief of those that wrote and compiled the Pentateuch and believed by the authors of the NT of the whole meaning tof the text. This represents why ancient tribal world views are totally disconnected with the reality of the real universe we know through science and history today. Christians try to desperately deal with the contradictions with just plain denial, and many different interpretations to justify this conundrum, which is unresolvable.

Contemporary science and academic history simply deals with the objective verifiable evidence of the physical nature of our universe, history of life and humanity, without considering the many confusing and contradictory religious beliefs in the ancient history of humanity.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Well, yes it easy to make up anything you want when you believe in ancient tribal religions, such as a literal belief in the Bible. You can believe a world flood, dragons a diverse selection of Gods, other supernatural creatures, or a universe less than 10,000 years old. Yes this is the belief of those that wrote and compiled the Pentateuch and believed by the authors of the NT of the whole meaning tof the text. This represents why ancient tribal world views are totally disconnected with the reality of the ppl

Contemporary science and academic history simply deals with the objective verifiable evidence of the physical nature of our universe, history of life and humanity, without considering the many confusing and contradictory religious beliefs in the ancient history of humanity.

Yeah, we actually believe God, receive His promises, blessings and eternal life. Walk and live in the Spirit.
I would say when looking at the splendor and majesty of God and the reality of the awesome creation He entrusted to us here that we live in, not sure how you come up with believers don’t live in reality.
But here we are, as a spiritually deaf and blind person comes up with a billions of years ago, impossible scenario for life and says they are living in reality. Your science is ever changing its perspective and would say very desperate to try to explain for the last many years so I would question your reality or futile life view.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Questioning others as to whether they have read and studied the Bible because they do not agree with you is a fallacy an
'appeal appeal to (personal) authority."

So, if I said for you to “take a hike”, you could be the one to argue what I meant by that or do you ask the person who said it?
He is my Dad after all who is the Author of the Bible not yours.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yeah, we actually believe God, receive His promises, blessings and eternal life. Walk and live in the Spirit.
I would say when looking at the splendor and majesty of God and the reality of the awesome creation He entrusted to us here that we live in, not sure how you come up with believers don’t live in reality.
But here we are, as a spiritually deaf and blind person comes up with a billions of years ago, impossible scenario for life and says they are living in reality. Your science is ever changing its perspective and would say very desperate to try to explain for the last many years so I would question your reality or futile life view.

Not all believers do not live in reality. Many believers are wise enough to realize that the book of Genesis is a book of myths and its goal is to teach morals and faith, not history. For example, long before the time of Darwin's theory of evolution the flood myth was refuted by early Christian geologists. They were still Christians. They merely did not abuse the Bible by demanding that all of it is to be interpreted literally.

 

[shunyadragon]

So, if I said for you to “take a hike”, you could be the one to argue what I meant by that or do you ask the person who said it?

Does not make sense please clarify.

He is my Dad after all who is the Author of the Bible not yours.

Whore you referring to as my Dad?

The authors of the Bible are largely unknown.

You need to take responsibility for your own intentional ignorance of science and academic history.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

That is exactly the case, by what people communicate about the Bible who “claim” they read and studied it prove by their comments that they don’t understand and walking in the dark.

Oh that's just so much baloney. Just because someone disagrees with YOUR interpretation in no ways indicates they have not studied the Bible.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Oh that's just so much baloney. Just because someone disagrees with YOUR interpretation in no ways indicates they have not studied the Bible.

It’s not my interpretation it’s what God says which is clear. The Bible communicates a clear message and then people say it means something else because the Word of God convicts people that what they are doing is wrong, people can’t handle that and then twist the meaning.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

It’s not my interpretation

Oh of course it is. The fact that you don't see that this involves your interpretation is simply arrogance on your part. You basically have a grossly inflated view of your own ideas, equating your own thoughts with the voice of God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It’s not my interpretation it’s what God says which is clear. The Bible communicates a clear message and then people say it means something else because the Word of God convicts people that what they are doing is wrong, people can’t handle that and then twist the meaning.

Do you know what almost every Christian believes about their interpretation? They too believe that they have the right one. Whether the accept evolution or not. Whether they hate the gays or not. Whether they are trinitarians or they are not. They all believe that they have the right interpretation and other Christians do not.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Oh of course it is. The fact that you don't see that this involves your interpretation is simply arrogance on your part. You basically have a grossly inflated view of your own ideas, equating your own thoughts with the voice of God.

Well, what is God speaking to you? What reference in the Bible are we talking about and what do you say it means?