For once, I welcome a lilting "Kumbaya"....even if our spellings differ.
May I offer you some granola?
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IRS Admits They Targeted Conservative Groups
- Thread starter esmith
- Start date
May I offer you some granola?
Alceste
Vagabond
Not me - I be whippin out my mandolin and joining in. I'll do the harmony part!
MM got here just in time. I would say now would be a good time to break out the rolling papers, but that would be against the rules most likely so I will not say that.
kiwimac
Brother Napalm of God's Love
As the IRS targetted liberal organisations under Bush, I fail to see the controversy here.
When the IRS targeted liberals
When the IRS targeted liberals
Wouldn't that also be very wrong?
I guess I will go out on a limb here and attempt to be on topic.
Is not abuse of power a bad thing no matter which side is doing it?
Is not abuse of power a bad thing no matter which side is doing it?
Alceste
Vagabond
Yes. Is this abuse of power, though? Political groups applied for tax exempt status and the IRS attempted to verify their eligibility.
Seems like much ado about nothing to me, at least in this case. If there were any evidence of an organized campaign of persecution for political gain, it would be a different story.
Alceste
Vagabond
Oh look, a politically motivated IRS audit! The first to be presented in the thread! Congratulations!
dust1n
Zindīq
Well, I won't argue that pattern isn't there. There are plenty of ways free speech is being effectively tampered with, in various ways I disagree with.
But the IRS story...:sleep: I'd be happy someone is being diligent in countering fraud.
That being said, I agree it is wrong to politically attack someone via IRS. But honestly, I think the IRS just got a bunch of new 501 requests and was trying to make sure there are groups supporting or paying for candidates.
Alceste
Vagabond
I don't know - auditing a church and the NAACP specifically for criticizing Bush seems worse to me than carefully vetting tea party applications for tax exempt status, especially since the tea party is nothing but a political organization (unlike a church), and therefore should not be eligible for tax exempt status in the first place.
Anyone who wants to pin this on Obama's administration needs to explain how it can be his fault given that his appointments to head the IRS have not been approved by our foot-dragging Congress. That is, I can see holding him responsible if his people were running the agency, but Congress has seen to it that his people are not running the agency.
esmith
Veteran Member
No one is saying that Obama was directly responsible for the actions of the IRS. There may be further findings that the Obama campaign and possibly the Democratic Party directly or indirectly influenced those actions taken by IRS employees or who condoned those actions. There is factual evidence that illegal actions were taken by one or more employees of the IRS that could be construed as beneficial to the Obama re-election campaign or to other Democrats seeking re-election or election.
Indeed...there is no evidence that Obama had direct involvement.
His "The Buck Stops There" defense is credible.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/nbc-wh-blaming-treasury-dept-irs-scandal_724525.html
But still, presidents influence governmental action by setting a tone & by admin rules, so it's his function to prevent
&/or stop IRS abusive practices.
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Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Exactly....I see this as a problem with all parties after Citizens United.....Tea Party/Patriots and other Liberal groups are all about politics......The IRS did exactly what they should have done...can't help it if the majority of the applications were from Conservative group....
A problem is that the courts have redefined 501 (c) (4) to allow some political activity. How much isExactly....I see this as a problem with all parties after Citizens United.....Tea Party/Patriots and other Liberal groups are all about politics......The IRS did exactly what they should have done...can't help it if the majority of the applications were from Conservative group....
"some" will be up to interpretation. 10% is widely considered acceptable, but some lawyers argue 49.9%.
The law needs more specificity, but Congress has abdicated this role for the last decade or so.
To say they can't help it is at odds with statements from both the IRS & the White House.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way...for-singling-out-tea-party-and-patriot-groups
There is more info coming out, & the problem is looming larger & deeper. The dust will take a while to settle & allow a clearer picture.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ctor-Generals-focus-Cincinnati-employees.html
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Govern...oup-in-2012-with-leaked-IRS-scandal-documents
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/05/14/irs-tea-party-progressive-groups/2158831/
An inherent bias within the IRS would explain the apparent agenda, without implicating Obama.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/348417/irs-employees-disproportionately-donate-obama
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Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
I let others deal with it because so far I don't see any use of the IRS for political purposes here...
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
I don't see the problem. So...the people at the IRS liked Obama more than Romney....MOST OF US did as well.....hence the election.....:sleep:
New allegations are popping up daily now.
Lois Lerner approved exemption for Obama brother's 'charity' | The Daily Caller
Of course, it could all be a coincidence, as it must have been during the Nixon & Bush administrations when an anti-liberal bias appeared to exist.