Is a Communist Utopia possible?

[InformedIgnorance]

Certainly a communist utopia is possible... but it would undermine the power of those that have sucked up the benefit in capitalism, therefore they would struggle against it - given the fact that the affluent can now utilise unmanned armed drones and so forth, that would mean that they will never allow a communist utopia to flourish - they would stop it with force if necessary.

 

[Road Warrior]

Sorry, but history shows it is not possible. I believe this to be human nature. As a species, we aren't mature nor advanced enough to become a race of altruists, which is what it'd take to make communism or socialism to work.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The problem with your utopia is the premise that a doctor is equal to a janitor. Should all the janitors go to medical school and fail? If you don't reward excellence, no one will strive for excellence. Why would I work and learn to be a doctor when I can pick up trash in the park for the same money? Why would I work outside laying brick and block where it is hot or cold when I could answer a phone in air conditioning or heat?

The problem with your suggested systems is there is no reward for being productive. If I show up and put in a minimum effort, I get the same reward that a person who works hard and smart.

Their is no incentive to not be wasteful or better yourself. I would be miserable living in a system like that. Why would you want to live where a minimum effort is all that is required?

 

[no-body]

The problem with your utopia is the premise that a doctor is equal to a janitor. Should all the janitors go to medical school and fail? If you don't reward excellence, no one will strive for excellence. Why would I work and learn to be a doctor when I can pick up trash in the park for the same money? Why would I work outside laying brick and block where it is hot or cold when I could answer a phone in air conditioning or heat?

The problem with your suggested systems is there is no reward for being productive. If I show up and put in a minimum effort, I get the same reward that a person who works hard and smart.

Their is no incentive to not be wasteful or better yourself. I would be miserable living in a system like that. Why would you want to live where a minimum effort is all that is required?

Because some people just want to be doctors? I don't believe any utopia is possible, much less a communist one but if people just did what they want to do because it is really what they want to do in their hearts instead of for monetary/material gain then I believe the whole world would be a lot better off in the end.

 

[YmirGF]

I'd suggest that Communism will never work, as Sunstone observed, in anything but very small groups because it does not accurately reflect or allow for the foibles of human nature.

 

[Reverend Rick]

The Soviets used to say, "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us".

 

[painted wolf]

The problem with your utopia is the premise that a doctor is equal to a janitor. Should all the janitors go to medical school and fail? If you don't reward excellence, no one will strive for excellence. Why would I work and learn to be a doctor when I can pick up trash in the park for the same money? Why would I work outside laying brick and block where it is hot or cold when I could answer a phone in air conditioning or heat?

The problem with your suggested systems is there is no reward for being productive. If I show up and put in a minimum effort, I get the same reward that a person who works hard and smart.

Their is no incentive to not be wasteful or better yourself. I would be miserable living in a system like that. Why would you want to live where a minimum effort is all that is required?

Some people want to enjoy the work they do...

I have friends who are perfectly happy being janitors and clerks even though they got a degree or simply didn't want one, while I'm striving to become a scientist... not because of the money but because I'm passionate about the subject.

"bettering yourself" is a personal goal with no particular endpoint. You can't say I'm bettering myself by trying to get my PhD while they aren't, just because they are happy to help others by running shops and cleaning up schools. They better themselves in other ways, in their personal relationships with their spouses and children for example.

wa:do

 

[hackwrench]

Automation is critical to any utopia. The question then becomes, " how many people can automation support with the resources available on the planet?"

 

[Sunstone]

I don't think any utopias are possible, whether of the Right or of the Left. Humans are not susceptible to radical change.

 

[YmirGF]

I don't think any utopias are possible, whether of the Right or of the Left. Humans are not susceptible to radical change.

Oh, I think there is plenty of evidence that people are highly susceptible, Sunstone. The thing is following through with a tolerable form of government. That separates the Stalin's from the Washington's.

 

[Sunstone]

Oh, I think there is plenty of evidence that people are highly susceptible, Sunstone. The thing is following through with a tolerable form of government. That separates the Stalin's from the Washington's.

I suppose that would depend on what you mean by "radical". I was thinking along the lines of changing human nature. I think the utopias of both the Right and the Left would require such radical changes to work. But I just don't see that happening.

 

[YmirGF]

I suppose that would depend on what you mean by "radical". I was thinking along the lines of changing human nature. I think the utopias of both the Right and the Left would require such radical changes to work. But I just don't see that happening.

In that sense, I agree. I was thinking "radical change" as in Maoist China, Hitler's Germany, the American Civil war, etc...

 

[Mathematician]

All utopias are equally impossible, by definition. Unfortunately the GOP appears to be putting forward candidates who believe in the equally preposterous proposition of a capitalist utopia to counteract a dead Soviet regime or something.

Communism is reputable where there's not an evident limitation on resources. For example, illegal music downloads, information, air, etc. Otherwise it's unlikely.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Automation is critical to any utopia. The question then becomes, " how many people can automation support with the resources available on the planet?"

Indeed, but more limiting still is the fact of whom owns those resources and the automated facilities and so forth; and why would they allow others to benefit from those facilities or resources (especially if they are privately owned) instead of letting them all die or else barely survive

 

[Road Warrior]

Automation is critical to any utopia. The question then becomes, " how many people can automation support with the resources available on the planet?"

What happens when the automation fails? Either by faulty design or that the humans simply forget how to fix it? Ever see "Zardoz", "The Time Machine" or any other post-apocalyptic movie or book?

Technology is allowing our civilization to sustain a world of 7 billion people and, without other advances, can probably sustain 10 billion. The problem, as you seem already aware, is the limits of our resources. Once the oil stops flowing the machines grind to a stop.

Unfortunately, both communism and socialism are not conducive to entrepreneurship or continually sustaining technological advances. They just don't work that way. Look at what happened to the USSR in trying to keep up with Space Race and the Arms Race? Reagan basically bankrupted them by outspending them. Only a capitalist system can sustain such advances.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Automation in such a context usually refers to semi-automation, ignoring for a moment that maintenance and repair can itself be automated, there is nothing to suggest that humans could not oversee or override the processes involved when required - this would of course require that people continue to be educated in such disciples (particular engineering and information technology)

And capitalism does not exist in the world now - just as communism did not exist in the world then; however capitalism by its very nature precludes such a utopia, because in such a scenario, there is little incentive to provide any goods or services, because people will not have the capacity to pay for them on account of the level of automation supplanting so many of the prospective jobs; in that respect a communist model is FAR more likely to enable a utopia.

 

[EndlessArising]

Have you guys seen the movie Zeitgeist Moving Forward? If not, I really recommend it. It's available in full on Youtube

 

[waitasec]

Given the nature of mankind is it really possible to have a viable communist state where everyone gets a reasonable standard of living?

Most anti-communists quickly point to the collapse of the Soviet Union as proof that this system cannot work as it goes against human nature. That is hardly a credible argument though.

Under the right circumstances could it work and what would be the major problems?

there can never be the right circumstances it will eventually collapse as it is human nature to get things the easy way...

 

[Karl Streicher]

If everyone would just BELIEVE in it, it would all work out- sound familiar? Just as many men will lust after half naked females dancing on one day and then beg for forgiveness on another so will men be greedy and conniving one day and then hide behind a shroud of self righteous self deceit on another
simple answer: NO, it will never happen

 

[melcollanero]

Has it ever been tried to be achieved (the communist "utopia")? Because the communist societies doesn't seem to have been that "utopic", looks like never reached that status. Their leaders called their owned societies communist, but utopic? It wasn't "ideal" to all aspects of a society to prosper correctly, quietly, healthy, etc. There were communist societes, but also forced labour (often called slavery), pollution- low life expectancies (remain still), unfair salaries, hunger..

An utopic communism has never been tried, so none can blame on something that doesn't have been carried out.

This could only be possible through total transparency, honesty, equality.. there is no other way to this to be glimpsed somehow.