Is a person a Christian if...

[Daisies4me]

I don't see how it could have come From Catholocism when it was being written about by church leaders in 125 AD long before the Roman Catholic church. I strongly believe in sola scriptura, ALL doctrine is established by the Bible and the Bible only. I will share with you a number of OT and NT verses that clearly support the Trinity.

(quote)
Anglicans Online | The Nicene Creed

so many glaring contradictions. Amazing the some don't see that. How can Jesus be 'at the right hand of' God, and then, at the same time, BE the same one that He is 'with'?

Now, that's a stretch, don't you think?
Reasoning on the scriptures will clarify the fact that Jesus and The Almighty God, Jesus' God and Father, are two separate entities.

1 Corinthians 1: 3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ..." stated by the Apostle of Jesus, Paul.

John 20:17 " Jesus said to her: 'Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. Be on your way to my brothers and say to them , " I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God''"

Does God the Father have 'brothers'? hardly.
If Mary Magdalene has the same God as Jesus does, does that make Mary part of the 'trinity' also? Not even.

Let's be reasonable.

 

[Daisies4me]

Oh please, The doctrine of he Godhead (trinity) existed long before Roman Catholicism. Your assertion that diligently reading the Scriptures somehow discredits the doctrine is nonsense. If one is very careful to look at the terms translated into English, in their original Koine Greek and Hebrew, and see what the terms actually mean, the doctrine is Biblically sound. Further, even the English translations support the doctrine,

(quote)
found this online, from a church out of oklahoma. NOT JW article. But this part of their page is true.
"Ancient Babylonian Triad, Truine, Trinity

Babylon is the place of origin of all False Doctrine and the Trinity
The three main Gods over all the other Gods & Goddesses

THE THREE MAIN GODS
First Person Second Person Third Person
Father, King Son, Prince Queen, Mother
Triad of Babylon
Nimrod Tammuz Simerimas
Shamash Sin Ishtar
Triad of Backsliden Israel
Baal Tammuz Ashoreth
Triad of Egypt
Osiris Horus Isis
Triad of Greece
Zeus Apollo Athena
Triad of India
Brahama Vishnu Shiva
Triad of Rome
Jupiter Mars Venus
Triad of Catholicism
Father Son Holy Spirit
Jehovah Jesus Dove
Note: The Dove has always been the Catholic root Goddess
symbol. Mary has been elevated to Co-Saviour with Christ."

So, yes, trinities existed long before Jesus came to earth. However. such false doctrines are not BIBLICAL, but are of the enemies of the God of the Bible, in reality.....

 

[shmogie]

(quote)
found this online, from a church out of oklahoma. NOT JW article. But this part of their page is true.
"Ancient Babylonian Triad, Truine, Trinity

Babylon is the place of origin of all False Doctrine and the Trinity
The three main Gods over all the other Gods & Goddesses

THE THREE MAIN GODS
First Person Second Person Third Person
Father, King Son, Prince Queen, Mother
Triad of Babylon
Nimrod Tammuz Simerimas
Shamash Sin Ishtar
Triad of Backsliden Israel
Baal Tammuz Ashoreth
Triad of Egypt
Osiris Horus Isis
Triad of Greece
Zeus Apollo Athena
Triad of India
Brahama Vishnu Shiva
Triad of Rome
Jupiter Mars Venus
Triad of Catholicism
Father Son Holy Spirit
Jehovah Jesus Dove
Note: The Dove has always been the Catholic root Goddess
symbol. Mary has been elevated to Co-Saviour with Christ."

So, yes, trinities existed long before Jesus came to earth. However. such false doctrines are not BIBLICAL, but are of the enemies of the God of the Bible, in reality.....

I will prove to you that the doctrine of the Godhead is Bible based. It will take a day or two to get the material together. Think this through.............. there is a company owned by John Smith, his son, Jim Smith president of the company, is completely and totally trusted, and Supported by his father in any decision he makes, and at various times and for various reasons the father turns complete control of the company over to his son. Jerry Smith is the nephew of John. He is responsible for special projects and communication. The three are in constant communication with one another. No decision is made without consultation of the three, the father having the final say. They are all Smiths, they are individuals within the company. God is God, collectively and individually (Smith) The Father is God, the Son is God and the Spirit is God. Collectively they are God. Certainly not a perfect analogy, but it works. There are others about points of consciousness, as well the impact of the the at least 9 dimensions ( we only experience 4) that exist and are proven so in physics. I won't bore you with those. I will prove FROM THE BIBLE that the Godhead is true doctrine and those who deny it are trying to put God in the can of puny human reasoning and human traits. He, and they are so, so, much more.

 

[shmogie]

(quote)
Anglicans Online | The Nicene Creed

so many glaring contradictions. Amazing the some don't see that. How can Jesus be 'at the right hand of' God, and then, at the same time, BE the same one that He is 'with'?

Now, that's a stretch, don't you think?
Reasoning on the scriptures will clarify the fact that Jesus and The Almighty God, Jesus' God and Father, are two separate entities.

1 Corinthians 1: 3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord, Jesus Christ..." stated by the Apostle of Jesus, Paul.

John 20:17 " Jesus said to her: 'Stop clinging to me. For I have not yet ascended to the Father. Be on your way to my brothers and say to them , " I am ascending to my Father and your Father, and to my God and your God''"

Does God the Father have 'brothers'? hardly.
If Mary Magdalene has the same God as Jesus does, does that make Mary part of the 'trinity' also? Not even.

Let's be reasonable.

I am not even sure what you are trying to say. I am not talking about a creed, that is totally irrelevant. So is the comparison to pagan beliefs. The only thing that is relevant is the Bible. You appear to be arguing that if a satanist has two legs, and I have two legs, then I am a satanist

 

[Daisies4me]

Yes, they are two separate beings, but they are God

(quote)
quite the conundrum you have created for yourself hers.
separate--one
together-two

The Unity of purpose makes Jesus and His Father, Jehovah God the Almighty, and the members of the congregation 'in union' with each other, The congregation members certainly are not any part of the Trinity that you claim to exist, are they?
And yet, the same scripture that you use in an attempt to claim that God and Jesus are one and the same, would also add the congregation into the mix. That's a lot of people making up a mysterious triune godhead, don't you think?

(Just as when you marry a spouse, the two are joined 'as one' in the unity of Purpose, in this instance, united for the purpose of bring forth offspring--not that you are literally 2 people interchangable in one body)

John 17:21-22 speaks of the entire congregation being 'one', just as He and His Father are 'one'. Not literally , indicating unity of purpose, like minded, 'on the same page', etc.

 

[shmogie]

(quote)
quite the conundrum you have created for yourself hers.
separate--one
together-two

The Unity of purpose makes Jesus and His Father, Jehovah God the Almighty, and the members of the congregation 'in union' with each other, The congregation members certainly are not any part of the Trinity that you claim to exist, are they?
And yet, the same scripture that you use in an attempt to claim that God and Jesus are one and the same, would also add the congregation into the mix. That's a lot of people making up a mysterious triune godhead, don't you think?

(Just as when you marry a spouse, the two are joined 'as one' in the unity of Purpose, in this instance, united for the purpose of bring forth offspring--not that you are literally 2 people interchangable in one body)

John 17:21-22 speaks of the entire congregation being 'one', just as He and His Father are 'one'. Not literally , indicating unity of purpose, like minded, 'on the same page', etc.

No conumdrum, pure Biblical truth. Again, your reasoning is out to lunch here. Please, point me to where the "unity of purpose" doctrine actually means the Godhead. You say not literally, so he said something as clear as a bell, then you reason away that he didn't really mean what he said. Once again, as you fine folk are wont to do, you want God to be like you, a created sinful human. You limit him based upon your understanding of human reality and limitations, not the same. Tell me about the Biblical word, Godhead. You don't use it, instead you rail against trinity. What is the Godhead ?

 

[Daisies4me]

I will prove to you that the doctrine of the Godhead is Bible based. It will take a day or two to get the material together. Think this through.............. there is a company owned by John Smith, his son, Jim Smith president of the company, is completely and totally trusted, and Supported by his father in any decision he makes, and at various times and for various reasons the father turns complete control of the company over to his son. Jerry Smith is the nephew of John. He is responsible for special projects and communication. The three are in constant communication with one another. No decision is made without consultation of the three, the father having the final say. They are all Smiths, they are individuals within the company. God is God, collectively and individually (Smith) The Father is God, the Son is God and the Spirit is God. Collectively they are God. Certainly not a perfect analogy, but it works. There are others about points of consciousness, as well the impact of the the at least 9 dimensions ( we only experience 4) that exist and are proven so in physics. I won't bore you with those. I will prove FROM THE BIBLE that the Godhead is true doctrine and those who deny it are trying to put God in the can of puny human reasoning and human traits. He, and they are so, so, much more.

(quote)

Jesus plainly stated that "the Father is greater than I am". shoots your family "co-equal"
godhead out of the water, doesn't it?

We also see in the Bible, that there is a headship arrangement put in place. Did you realize that Jesus has a "head"?
Notice 1 Corinthians 11:3 for reference.
Again, we see that Jesus is always in subjection to His Father, who is God.

 

[Daisies4me]

No conumdrum, pure Biblical truth. Again, your reasoning is out to lunch here. Please, point me to where the "unity of purpose" doctrine actually means the Godhead. You say not literally, so he said something as clear as a bell, then you reason away that he didn't really mean what he said. Once again, as you fine folk are wont to do, you want God to be like you, a created sinful human. You limit him based upon your understanding of human reality and limitations, not the same. Tell me about the Biblical word, Godhead. You don't use it, instead you rail against trinity. What is the Godhead ?

( quote)
Being united as 'one' is exactly what it taught in the Bible. Now, learning what the scriptures teach, certainly does not in any fashion indicate that 'I want to be God', as you erroneously suggest.
My 'human reality' is different from yours, how?
Rest assured, many did not get the sense of what Jesus said when he was right there in their midst. Why do you suppose that he spoke in 'parables', or illustrations?

Because accurate understanding is not for those in spiritual darkness. Some seek knowledge for a wrong reason, and God knows this. Those to whom God gives accurate understanding is His choice, and depends on their heart condition. Those with honest hearts earnestly seeking truth, will eventually find it, and the light of discernment will be given to them.
IN order to put faith in God, they first have to fine out WHO the true God is. Matthew 13:9-15.
Faith is not a possession of all men. 2 Thessalonians 3:2.
So, we have to examine our motives, and seek humbly thru prayer , for acurate understanding from God.

 

[shmogie]

( quote)
Being united as 'one' is exactly what it taught in the Bible. Now, learning what the scriptures teach, certainly does not in any fashion indicate that 'I want to be God', as you erroneously suggest.
My 'human reality' is different from yours, how?
Rest assured, many did not get the sense of what Jesus said when he was right there in their midst. Why do you suppose that he spoke in 'parables', or illustrations?

Because accurate understanding is not for those in spiritual darkness. Some seek knowledge for a wrong reason, and God knows this. Those to whom God gives accurate understanding is His choice, and depends on their heart condition. Those with honest hearts earnestly seeking truth, will eventually find it, and the light of discernment will be given to them.
IN order to put faith in God, they first have to fine out WHO the true God is. Matthew 13:9-15.
Faith is not a possession of all men. 2 Thessalonians 3:2.
So, we have to examine our motives, and seek humbly thru prayer , for acurate understanding from God.

I didn't say you wanted to be God. I said you want to view him using human logic and experience. So, since 3 humans can't also be 1 human, or 1/3 of a human, you apply these human rules to God, who operates outside of the universe in a reality we can't grasp.

 

[shmogie]

(quote)

Jesus plainly stated that "the Father is greater than I am". shoots your family "co-equal"
godhead out of the water, doesn't it?

We also see in the Bible, that there is a headship arrangement put in place. Did you realize that Jesus has a "head"?
Notice 1 Corinthians 11:3 for reference.
Again, we see that Jesus is always in subjection to His Father, who is God.

Interesting, I never used the term co equal at all. In fact, I said just the opposite. Please don't assume you know what I believe, and read what is written

 

[Grandliseur]

May I ask what baptismal formula you were baptized with?

I was baptized under this criteria:
Matt 28:
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit; 20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have enjoined you. And behold, *I* am with you all the days, until the completion of the age.

While I now would have preferred Acts chapter 2:38; nonetheless, my baptism stands.

 

[Daisies4me]

I didn't say you wanted to be God. I said you want to view him using human logic and experience. So, since 3 humans can't also be 1 human, or 1/3 of a human, you apply these human rules to God, who operates outside of the universe in a reality we can't grasp.

(quote)

I apologize for misunderstanding your statement.
Now, in the human race, what other logic and experience is there? Human logic is the only one we have. ha.
However, the things that God has revealed and/or continues to shed the light of understanding upon, are possible thru the active force of Jehovah God, His creative holy spirit. If God created the earth and all things in it via His holy spirit, ( Genesis 1:2) why should we not expect that he can help earnest seekers to 'find' accurate understanding of His writings?

God often uses humans, and at times, angels,
to teach other humans, what His will is, and directs them by His holy spirit.

 

[Daisies4me]

Interesting, I never used the term co equal at all. In fact, I said just the opposite. Please don't assume you know what I believe, and read what is written

(quote)

You didn't have to . that is what the trinity doctrine teaches. That there are three gods, co-equal in time, knowledge, and rank.

Surely, as a trinitarian, you know that?

 

[Daisies4me]

No conumdrum, pure Biblical truth. Again, your reasoning is out to lunch here. Please, point me to where the "unity of purpose" doctrine actually means the Godhead. You say not literally, so he said something as clear as a bell, then you reason away that he didn't really mean what he said. Once again, as you fine folk are wont to do, you want God to be like you, a created sinful human. You limit him based upon your understanding of human reality and limitations, not the same. Tell me about the Biblical word, Godhead. You don't use it, instead you rail against trinity. What is the Godhead ?

(quote)
I am sorry to hear that you presume that we want God to be a human! surely, you know that the Bible says "no man has seen God at any time". -John 1:18.
Mankind cannot behold the Most High God with human eyes. Exdous 33:20 tells you that.

2 Chronicles 2:5"The house which I am about to build will be great, for greater is our God than all the gods. 6"But who is able to build a house for Him, for the heavens and the highest heavens cannot contain Him? So who am I, that I should build a house for Him, except to burn incense before Him?

Jehovah is so Mighty that even the heavens cannot contain HIm-- why would anyone even think for a moment, that He would ever be in a form 'lower than angels', that of lowly sinful mankind!!
Not a thought that any thinking person would give any credence to, imo. so if you thought that to be anything near what I believe, check your Bible. I go with what it says on the matter.

The correct translation is 'godship' . Not 'godhead'.

 

[Daisies4me]

I will prove to you that the doctrine of the Godhead is Bible based. It will take a day or two to get the material together. Think this through.............. there is a company owned by John Smith, his son, Jim Smith president of the company, is completely and totally trusted, and Supported by his father in any decision he makes, and at various times and for various reasons the father turns complete control of the company over to his son. Jerry Smith is the nephew of John. He is responsible for special projects and communication. The three are in constant communication with one another. No decision is made without consultation of the three, the father having the final say. They are all Smiths, they are individuals within the company. God is God, collectively and individually (Smith) The Father is God, the Son is God and the Spirit is God. Collectively they are God. Certainly not a perfect analogy, but it works. There are others about points of consciousness, as well the impact of the the at least 9 dimensions ( we only experience 4) that exist and are proven so in physics. I won't bore you with those. I will prove FROM THE BIBLE that the Godhead is true doctrine and those who deny it are trying to put God in the can of puny human reasoning and human traits. He, and they are so, so, much more.

(quote)
with all due respect, I have yet to see any ability to refute any of the scriptural evidences and logical reasoning that has been shown to disprove a supposed Biblical trinity doctrine . Since I have proven to myself many years ago that Jesus is not 'Almighty God', nor is he any part of a man-made doctrine of a triune godhead. He is the Head of the Christian Congregation of God, Jehovah, and is the Leader and God's Anointed King-designate of the Heavenly Kingdom of God. (the one Jesus taught us to pray for at Matthew 6:10)
So don't feel that you have to 'prove ' anything, unless it is to yourself, as I am satisfied with what I know the Bible really teaches on the matter.
May you have peace

 

[pearl]

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptising them to the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit

Are not those the words of the Trinity?

 

[metis]

I don't see how it could have come From Catholocism when it was being written about by church leaders in 125 AD long before the Roman Catholic church.

Correct as the name "Roman" wasn't added until later whereas the Uniate churches rejoined the Catholic Church. And remember that it was the Catholic Church that chose the canon of the Bible you use.

 

[metis]

The Dove has always been the Catholic root Goddess
symbol.

Mary has been elevated to Co-Saviour with Christ."

Neither of these are teachings in the RCC.

 

[shmogie]

(quote)
with all due respect, I have yet to see any ability to refute any of the scriptural evidences and logical reasoning that has been shown to disprove a supposed Biblical trinity doctrine . Since I have proven to myself many years ago that Jesus is not 'Almighty God', nor is he any part of a man-made doctrine of a triune godhead. He is the Head of the Christian Congregation of God, Jehovah, and is the Leader and God's Anointed King-designate of the Heavenly Kingdom of God. (the one Jesus taught us to pray for at Matthew 6:10)
So don't feel that you have to 'prove ' anything, unless it is to yourself, as I am satisfied with what I know the Bible really teaches on the matter.
May you have peace

Jn.20 : 28 Thomas called Jesus God, Jesus did not correct him, but confirmed Him
Jn. 8 : 58 Your Bible translates as "I have been" when it is actually is " I AM" I term used by God referring to himself., Why would the Jews want to stone him for saying " I have been" ?

The Bible says many times that God resurrected Jesus. Jesus himself said When speaking of Himself Jesus told the Jews that if they destroyed this Temple ( clearly himself ), HE would raise himself in three days . So, if he weren't God, and there are many verses that said God would raise him, HE must have been lying

When was God ever valued for 30 pieces of silver as stated in Zech. 11:12-13 ?

How do you explain God and Jesus being called the same names, Lord of Lords, Savior, Mighty God ,King of Israel, Rock, Light, Almighty, and Shepherd ?

Your translation ( Kindom intrerliner translation) omits "Me" the word used in the original manuscripts for Jn. !4:14. Literally transated from the Greek, would be "If ever anything you should ask Me in my name in the name of Me, this shall I do " If he weren't God, why did he authorize praying to him ?

many more to come, PEACE to you as well

 

[Daisies4me]

Are not those the words of the Trinity?

(quote)
no more that saying you are going to the store with tom, dick and harry.