Is a person a Christian if...

[Fool]

Here is the thing.

It is true that they are not based on certainty. But none of your assertions are either. Every observation of reality has a differing degree of certainty. And the certainty of stastics is much more sound than all of your unbacked claims.

oh but the problem is that i do have a certainty. that is, there are no certainties. i'm willing to risk it.

 

[james bond]

Would a person be considered a Christian if they wanted to follow Christ's teachings, but didn't exactly view him as God, but rather a prophet or messenger of God? Because technically they would be following Christ's path, just not believing that he himself was God or part of a trinity.

I can only tell you that I struggled with the Trinity, too. How can a monotheistic God be three separate entities at the same time? Why hasn't this idea been shot down in thousands of years and why is it one of the non-negotiable policies of my Methodist church? Furthermore, this is the big difference between my friend, Autumn and Rudy's and their JW beliefs.

There was no logical explanation for it although there are religious ones such as in gotquestions.

"The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it. The Trinity is a concept that is impossible for any human being to fully understand, let alone explain. God is infinitely greater than we are; therefore, we should not expect to be able to fully understand Him. The Bible teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God, and that the Holy Spirit is God. The Bible also teaches that there is only one God. Though we can understand some facts about the relationship of the different Persons of the Trinity to one another, ultimately, it is incomprehensible to the human mind. However, this does not mean the Trinity is not true or that it is not based on the teachings of the Bible."

Further explained here
What does the Bible teach about the Trinity?

I can't even explain it even after reading it.

Then one day, I found the electromagnetic spectrum. This would be the physical representation of God. It is the broad spectrum of electromagnetic force and light that was created on the first day of Genesis. After looking at it further, I thought the Holy Spirit was the radio-microwave-infrared portion of the spectrum. And Jesus was the visible light portion. God the Father would be the ultraviolet-x-ray-gamma ray portion. Then one can have three separate entities, but still be one spectrum. Note that it goes from lower frequency waves to higher frequencies. The electromagnetic forces in the universe are indeed vast. Also, note that cosmic rays which weakened humans after Noah's Flood are not part of the electromagnetic spectrum.

 

[james bond]

The EMS also leads to the question of what is the strongest force in the universe? I believe it's the electromagnetic force although current science states it's strong nuclear force. Maybe in terms of pure force it is, but electromagnetic force can neutralize it.

What force in the universe is the strongest or the most powerful?

What is Electromagnetic Force? (with pictures)

May the Force be with you or May God be with you ha ha.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

oh but the problem is that i do have a certainty. that is, there are no certainties. i'm willing to risk it.

You know no matter what you believe there are going to be religions that condemn you for it.

 

[pearl]

I just don't think it's accurate to suggest -- however obliquely -- that the average first-century Christian had essentially the same beliefs as the average Roman Catholic has today.

I didn't say that. My point is that at some point there was a certain centralization a unity. Its also not only the Roman, but the Orthodox who make up the Catholic church.

 

[Katzpur]

I didn't say that. My point is that at some point there was a certain centralization a unity.

And when do you see that as unity, that centralization as existing?

Its also not only the Roman, but the Orthodox who make up the Catholic church.

You're right. I wasn't thinking, simply because I don't have the occasion to talk to all that many Orthodox on this forum.

 

[pearl]

"The most difficult thing about the Christian concept of the Trinity is that there is no way to perfectly and completely understand it.

Don't try to analyze it. The classical trinitarian doctrine is of a language little understood today. For instance, the concept of person was entirely different to the philosophers of early centuries than today. Think of; the Lover, the Beloved, and the Love between them. We share in this Trinitarian love through Grace, God's self gift.

Have you ever read 'The Shack'? I have not read it but it caused quite a stir, of course the theologians had a field day with it but that was to be expected.

https://carm.org/the-shack

 

[Daisies4me]

Many, many Arian sects ? I would like to hear of them. Non Trinatarian believers form a tiny, very tiny, percentage of Christian believers, primarily the Jehovah's Witnesses. If you don't accept him for who he said he was, then why would you want to believe in him as fashioned in your own mind ?

(quote)

Might I say that JW's are NOT Arians. Arius taught that God is 'unknowable'. OTOH, We know the God we worship. It is the Creator, Jehovah the Almighty God in the Heavens.
Simply because one resists the pagan doctrine of a triune godhead as unbiblical, does not mean they are 'arians'.
Such false teachings originated in ancient Babylon. Today, the ones who perpetuate the lie are referred to in the Bible at Revelation 18:3-5, as a detestable thing that one should 'get out of' lest they share in her sins that go as high as the heavens. Guilt by association will cause ones to lose their lives. Apostate 'Christianity' promotes the God dishonoring trinity doctrine.
We reject the manmade non-inspired Nicean Creed as being from God, and not found in the Bible.

And we are approximately 1/10 of the population around the globe. In over 240 lands. hardly a very small portion of earth's inhabitants. We shop where you shop--go to schools you go to--work where you work, travel the same roads you travel, etc. We are all around you! We live in your neighborhoods, and are good citizens who pay their taxes and obey the laws of the lands in which we reside. Take time to get to know us. You may be surprised.

 

[shmogie]

(quote)

Might I say that JW's are NOT Arians. Arius taught that God is 'unknowable'. OTOH, We know the God we worship. It is the Creator, Jehovah the Almighty God in the Heavens.
Simply because one resists the pagan doctrine of a triune godhead as unbiblical, does not mean they are 'arians'.
Such false teachings originated in ancient Babylon. Today, the ones who perpetuate the lie are referred to in the Bible at Revelation 18:3-5, as a detestable thing that one should 'get out of' lest they share in her sins that go as high as the heavens. Guilt by association will cause ones to lose their lives. Apostate 'Christianity' promotes the God dishonoring trinity doctrine.
We reject the manmade non-inspired Nicean Creed as being from God, and not found in the Bible.

And we are approximately 1/10 of the population around the globe. In over 240 lands. hardly a very small portion of earth's inhabitants. We shop where you shop--go to schools you go to--work where you work, travel the same roads you travel, etc. We are all around you! We live in your neighborhoods, and are good citizens who pay their taxes and obey the laws of the lands in which we reside. Take time to get to know us. You may be surprised.

Sorry, but Arius posited that Christ was a created being, thus making JW's Arians. I have studied with JW's for years, and you are the first of many I have known to deny being an Arian. No, The Christian Trinitairan Doctrine did not begin in Babylonia, it began with Jesus. I have many JW friends whom I deeply respect, I simply do not believe or accept the doctrines of the organisation or the Watchtower society. I think your estimation of your numbers is way too high, or your estimation of the world population is way too low. BTW, much of your exegesis re Relevelation is incorrect also. Nevertheless, I would never judge the souls of your members collectively or individually that isn't my job. I never doubt that JW,s are Christians, you hold to the most important doctrine that defines a Christian, sola fide, solely by faith in what Christ has done, sola scriptura, the Bible and the Bible only.

 

[pearl]

And when do you see that as unity, that centralization as existing?

Probably from the 3rd cent. In our Eucharistic liturgy are the Eucharistic prayers of Hippolytus, 3rd, 4th cent. The earliest may be Clement of Rome; With this date the report of Eusebius agrees, that Clement did not take the bishop’s chair in Rome till 92 or 93.
As far as I know Reformers accept nothing beyond what is in the Canon.

 

[Daisies4me]

Sorry, but Arius posited that Christ was a created being, thus making JW's Arians. I have studied with JW's for years, and you are the first of many I have known to deny being an Arian. No, The Christian Trinitairan Doctrine did not begin in Babylonia, it began with Jesus. I have many JW friends whom I deeply respect, I simply do not believe or accept the doctrines of the organisation or the Watchtower society. I think your estimation of your numbers is way too high, or your estimation of the world population is way too low. BTW, much of your exegesis re Relevelation is incorrect also. Nevertheless, I would never judge the souls of your members collectively or individually that isn't my job. I never doubt that JW,s are Christians, you hold to the most important doctrine that defines a Christian, sola fide, solely by faith in what Christ has done, sola scriptura, the Bible and the Bible only.

(quote)

Smogie, dear--if you have studied the Bible with JW's, I fear that you may have not gotten very far, or that you misunderstood whatever it is that you say you 'studied'.
Ancient Babylon is the seat from which all pagan doctrines originated. When Nimrod attempted world domination and Jehovah changed the languages, so that the people could no longer communicate , it sent the different groups who could understand each other, to go off and form their own communities. Thus, the pagan rituals were carried with the different language groups to the areas they choose to make their homes.
IN Babylon, gods were worshipped in threes, and child sacrifice among other nasty things, were common in their worship.
notice a few web pages:
Paganism and Catholicism | Catholic Church Practices

Paganism In Christianity | United Church of God

UCG - How Ancient Trinitarian Gods
Influenced Adoption of the Trinity

Roman Catholic Church Babylon pagan origin roots deception

Just the first few that popped up in the search engine--there are many, many others that agree that ancient Babylon was the seat of Pagan doctrines and their origins.

Your final paragraph shows me that you couldn't have 'studied' much. Or, perhaps it wasn't JW's that you were studying with? There are other groups now that use the name Jehovah in their Church title. May I ask, what Bible study aid were you studying out of? What is the name of the publication?
How was your study conducted? How long and how often did you study?

 

[Daisies4me]

Sorry, but Arius posited that Christ was a created being, thus making JW's Arians. I have studied with JW's for years, and you are the first of many I have known to deny being an Arian. No, The Christian Trinitairan Doctrine did not begin in Babylonia, it began with Jesus. I have many JW friends whom I deeply respect, I simply do not believe or accept the doctrines of the organisation or the Watchtower society. I think your estimation of your numbers is way too high, or your estimation of the world population is way too low. BTW, much of your exegesis re Relevelation is incorrect also. Nevertheless, I would never judge the souls of your members collectively or individually that isn't my job. I never doubt that JW,s are Christians, you hold to the most important doctrine that defines a Christian, sola fide, solely by faith in what Christ has done, sola scriptura, the Bible and the Bible only.

(quote)
In the year 313 after Christ, Emperor Constantine ruled over the pagan Roman Empire and made this apostate form of Christianity a legal religion. After that, the Church began working closely with the Roman government.
For example, Constantine held a meeting with religious leaders, which became known as the Council of Nicaea. After that meeting, the emperor sent a priest named Arius into exile because he refused to believe that Jesus is God. Later, Theodosius became the Roman emperor, and the Catholic Church became the official religion of the Roman Empire. Historians say that pagan Rome became “Christian” during the time of Emperor Theodosius.
But the truth is that by that time, apostate Christians had accepted pagan teachings, so they had already become part of Babylon the Great.
However, there were still some faithful anointed Christians. They were like the wheat that Jesus talked about. These faithful ones were doing their best to worship God, but few were listening to what they had to say. (Read Matthew 13:24, 25, 37-39.)They truly were in Babylonian captivity!

 

[shmogie]

(quote)
In the year 313 after Christ, Emperor Constantine ruled over the pagan Roman Empire and made this apostate form of Christianity a legal religion. After that, the Church began working closely with the Roman government.
For example, Constantine held a meeting with religious leaders, which became known as the Council of Nicaea. After that meeting, the emperor sent a priest named Arius into exile because he refused to believe that Jesus is God. Later, Theodosius became the Roman emperor, and the Catholic Church became the official religion of the Roman Empire. Historians say that pagan Rome became “Christian” during the time of Emperor Theodosius.
But the truth is that by that time, apostate Christians had accepted pagan teachings, so they had already become part of Babylon the Great.
However, there were still some faithful anointed Christians. They were like the wheat that Jesus talked about. These faithful ones were doing their best to worship God, but few were listening to what they had to say. (Read Matthew 13:24, 25, 37-39.)They truly were in Babylonian captivity!

You must have a point, I am not sure what it is though, Is this statement yours, or someone elses ?

 

[Nietzsche]

Ancient Babylon is the seat from which all pagan doctrines originated.

I hate to break this to you but, at least for European(and Iranian, and Indian, so on) paganism, is a branch of the Indo-European proto-faith and language. The Babylonians were Semitic. Completely different lineages.

 

[Daisies4me]

You must have a point, I am not sure what it is though, Is this statement yours, or someone elses ?

(quote)
Arius was a Priest among priests. NO Christian follower of Jesus was involved in any of those proceedings that resulted in the adaptation of the Nicean Creed as Church doctrine-- they were considered 'heretics', remember? They would have been killed if caught.

 

[Tarheeler]

Would a person be considered a Christian if they wanted to follow Christ's teachings, but didn't exactly view him as God, but rather a prophet or messenger of God? Because technically they would be following Christ's path, just not believing that he himself was God or part of a trinity.

I'd consider them a Christian.

Merriam Webster defines it as one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus.

 

[Fool]

You know no matter what you believe there are going to be religions that condemn you for it.

it isn't religions that condemn. it's humans thinking they have ear of god and his power to do unto others what they wouldn't want done to themselves.

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

it isn't religions that condemn. it's humans thinking they have ear of god and his power to do unto others what they wouldn't want done to themselves.

Have you read the Bible or the Qu'ran?

 

[Fool]

Have you read the Bible or the Qu'ran?

i've read 2 different canons of said bible. the quran, no.

have you read the bible? or the qu'ran?

 

[CogentPhilosopher]

i've read 2 different canons of said bible. the quran, no.

have you read the bible? or the qu'ran?

Both. Both books condemn those who do not believe in them.