Is A Religion That Can Be Grasped By A 6 Year Old Suited To a 60 Year OLd?

[Don Wallace]

When I was a little boy, I was taught to love God and love my neighbour. These are the commandments Jesus used to make it simple for all. As you grow older, you realize it is a little more complicated and that there are many different questions that arise with regard to how to love God and one's neighbour. Life and religion get more and more complex. However, as you get even older, and have more life experience, the simplicity of these commandments re-emerges. At least, that is the case for me. Perhaps this is why Jesus told us that in order to truly understand, we must be more like children and approach these things in a simple way.

 

[Valjean]

Religion is loaded into our hard-drives long before we develop firewalls or filtering software. Present a religion to an adult with no previous indoctrination and he'd likely reject it as patently absurd. But if it's loaded early or makes it past a skeptical or reasoning mind and becomes firmly ensconsed it's extremely resistent to refutive facts.

It's rather like an inborn ego-defense mechanism.

 

[retrorich]

Mt:18:3: And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

A friend of mine who likes to tease me about religions once remarked to me: "Most Christians, Jews and Muslims have the same basic ideas about religion at 60 that they did at 6. In every other branch of life, people have much better and more truthful ideas about things at 60 than they did at 6. But not religion. Just goes to show you that religion is silly."

Do you think he has a point? If so, why? If not, why not?

Yes and no. The basic concept may be there but the true understanding of what is said, how to implement it is what is achieved through study which is incumbent on muslims to learn. 6 year olds are not the teachers at the Islamic universities. does a 6 year old have 300,00 hadith memorized or the Quran memorized in all 10 different recitations. The progression is Islam does not come from age but knowledge.

 

[MaddLlama]

"Faith is like a glass of water. When you're young, the glass is small, and it's easy to fill up. But the older you get, the bigger the glass gets, and the same amount of liquid doesn't fill it anymore. Periodically, the glass has to be refilled."

 

[ayani]

well, Jesus did say that "if you wish to see the Kingdom of Heaven you must be as little children"!

many of my favorite writers express their love of God and their understanding of His laws and presence is very simple, child-like ways which show alot of trust, wonder, humility, and friendly devotion.

just look at the market for spiritual books of a generalized tint- it seems that the language of these books has become simpler and simpler, more direct in approach and suggestions to the reader. why is this? i mean, there are many many more academic books about religion and faith out there, sure. but many people seem to respond off the bat to simple messages and directions that speak to them in a way that's both personal and generally insightful.

and at any rate, what is wrong with a simple faith? if taht faith gives hope and assurance and guidance, why should it have to be very complex?

 

[michel]

If he has a point, it's only that he's met some pretty unreflective 60 year olds.

I agree; It was just this morningthat I thought " Strange, I am still in the process of understanding the Lord's prayer, and yet, when they were toddlers, my two sons said the Lord's prayer every night with me.
Once a week, I would choose to change the wording completely to explain to my kids what the words actually meant. "

Those 'kids' are now 29 and 22............

 

[Faint]

Religion is loaded into our hard-drives long before we develop firewalls or filtering software. Present a religion to an adult with no previous indoctrination and he'd likely reject it as patently absurd. But if it's loaded early or makes it past a skeptical or reasoning mind and becomes firmly ensconsed it's extremely resistent to refutive facts.

It's rather like an inborn ego-defense mechanism.

Maybe. Would you say that some children then have more sphisticated anti-virus mechanisms? For instance, I was raised by mildly-Christian parents but as early as 5 yrs I was resistent to the religion. Sometime around the time kindergarten started, I asked my mom "If God made the universe, who made God?" Of course, I didn't fully grasp this as part of the refutation to the watchmaker arguement--but the general concept was there. Also, going to church around the same time period, not only did I not understand the sermons or how they applied to me--I couldn't care less about them. I was more interested in the crafts and coloring projects that we had in Sunday School.

So my point is that children can probably understand the very basic principles of religion--the "dos" and "do nots", pleasure and pain, and the need for self-preservation--but they do not understand the real depth of the doctrine (and it's consequences) until they get older. Just because a child can memorize and recite a few prayers does not mean s/he knows what s/he's talking about.

 

[kai]

How about teaching them that God isn't a mystery - that you and them can both know God.

well ok , and i am not critisizing but that makes me a little uneasy, i am not sure why but arnt they just going to beleive what an adult tells them, are they old enough to reason it out?

 

[Bishka]

well ok , and i am not critisizing but that makes me a little uneasy, i am not sure why but arnt they just going to beleive what an adult tells them, are they old enough to reason it out?

Some may and some may not......have you ever sat in a class or 12 6-year olds at church?

 

[Valjean]

Maybe. Would you say that some children then have more sphisticated anti-virus mechanisms? For instance, I was raised by mildly-Christian parents but as early as 5 yrs I was resistent to the religion. Sometime around the time kindergarten started, I asked my mom "If God made the universe, who made God?" Of course, I didn't fully grasp this as part of the refutation to the watchmaker arguement--but the general concept was there. Also, going to church around the same time period, not only did I not understand the sermons or how they applied to me--I couldn't care less about them. I was more interested in the crafts and coloring projects that we had in Sunday School.

So my point is that children can probably understand the very basic principles of religion--the "dos" and "do nots", pleasure and pain, and the need for self-preservation--but they do not understand the real depth of the doctrine (and it's consequences) until they get older. Just because a child can memorize and recite a few prayers does not mean s/he knows what s/he's talking about.

It's the very basic principles that must be instilled early and that most reasonable adults would be dubious of, eg: the existance of a magical, immensly powerful invisible personage, obsessed with our behavior and beliefs with no empirical evidence of His existance. Once this fundamental logical hurdle is surmounted the theology may be added at leisure.

My point is that the fundamental axioms, however fantastic, are easily accepted by a child's uncritical mind.

 

[kai]

Some may and some may not......have you ever sat in a class or 12 6-year olds at church?

no i havn't been to church for over 40 years when i was about seven

 

[Paraprakrti]

A friend of mine who likes to tease me about religions once remarked to me: "Most Christians, Jews and Muslims have the same basic ideas about religion at 60 that they did at 6. In every other branch of life, people have much better and more truthful ideas about things at 60 than they did at 6. But not religion. Just goes to show you that religion is silly."

Do you think he has a point? If so, why? If not, why not?

I'd question your friend's "much better" and "more truthful". Anyway, it is not to say that further realizations in religion won't be had from 6 years to 60 years. Just because the basic principles can be grasped by a 6 year old doesn't mean that the religion is silly.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

When I was a little boy, I was taught to love God and love my neighbour. These are the commandments Jesus used to make it simple for all. As you grow older, you realize it is a little more complicated and that there are many different questions that arise with regard to how to love God and one's neighbour. Life and religion get more and more complex. However, as you get even older, and have more life experience, the simplicity of these commandments re-emerges. At least, that is the case for me. Perhaps this is why Jesus told us that in order to truly understand, we must be more like children and approach these things in a simple way.

One of my favorite scriptures comes from 2 Corinthians 11:3;

"But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ."

 

[Booko]

Beliefs do not change because these beliefs are not challenged. They are not challenged amongst each other’s home teams and when they are challenged among other religions, the wrong weapons are used. No, I think if you came back generations later to check in with a certain religion you will notice that they have not evolved much, faith has insured that many of these beliefs must remain static.

My mother's denomination of Christianity has changed in some major ways in the past 30 years. Firstly, when I was there years ago, the anti-Papist strain was there, and in my grandmother's time it was palpable.

There was no place for blacks in the Church. It is the denomination that provided the theological underpinnings for Apartheid in S. Africa, after all.

And the place for women in the church was pretty much limited to caring for the children and putting flowers by the altar. In my grandmother's day, the men sat up front and the women in back. This was not a modesty issue, but came from the assumption that women weren't really going to understand the sermon anyway, so it didn't matter if they didn't hear everything. They were just there to say the prayers and sing the hymns and make sure the kiddies didn't get out of hand. I have 2 beautiful silver containers from my great-grandmothers' time. When you open them up, there's a little sponge inside, and it still smells of perfume. Women used to bring these things to church and compare perfume samples in the back, because it's not like they were supposed to pay attention or anything.

You can't become a member of the denomination until 18 yrs of age, and in the past, only members of the denomination could take Communion. Some churches were so strict that if you were visiting, they would ask for your membership papers! Those of other denominations could not take Communion.

Now her denomination has become a bridge between the Catholics and evangelicals, women are deacons and elders and are in study classes right alongside the men, communion is open and even children can take Communion, and the attitudes about non-whites have turned around completely (though some of the older members are still stuck in the past).

Religion is an enterprise that is often quite dependent on tradition, and that dependence causes it to be slow to change, but even a cursory examination of history shows it does change.

Oh yes, but to address your comment about beliefs being challenged, this denomination's beliefs about non-whites was very challenged during Apartheid. I remember being very surprised the U.S. Synod had broken off relations with the S.A. Synod in the 80s, trying to get them to move on the issue and acknowledge there is no Biblical basis for racism. That denominational isolation did as much to turn around Apartheid in S.A. as the economic isolation did. Actually, I think it's possible to argue the religious isolation did more to change things.

 

[Booko]

And children's questions.

Have you ever had a child as you a soul-searching question before?

I know I have...it startled me, but I sat down and tried to the best of my knowledge to explain, and they understood.

Yes -- I've asked more than a few of those.

And was told I "had no faith."

It was in that experience that I learned there is a huge difference between "blind faith" and "no faith."

Blind faith is what happens when you don't ask questions. That may also be what Sunstone's friend is objecting to.

 

[Bishka]

Blind faith is what happens when you don't ask questions. That may also be what Sunstone's friend is objecting to.

Could't agree more.

 

[cardero]

well ok , and i am not critisizing but that makes me a little uneasy, i am not sure why but arnt they just going to beleive what an adult tells them, are they old enough to reason it out?

I share the same concern that you have, do many 6 year olds have the options of comparing all the different theories about God to make the decision themselves. A parent, depending on what faith they belong to is only going to give their version of what they know about God. Is this a fair assessment to a six year old child? Is a parent going to give a 6 year old all the knowledge of all religions beliefs on a Supreme BEing or are they going to just give them their faith of God because they believe that this is the truth?