Is American culture inherently selfish?

[QuestioningMind]

Okay, now before you guys go sharpening your pitchforks, hear me out.
I’m not saying Americans are all selfish jerks. Or even many of them.
But during the COVID response, many other countries grumbled about safety procedures and lockdowns. But for the most part complied out of concern for their fellow man and now many are reopening.
Meanwhile every other day I get bombarded with either news stories of super spreader events, people protesting masks and even the occasional opinion piece acting all incredulous at the apparent American response. Which is to say, was utterly selfish and immature.

But that’s just the perception I gather from the outside looking in. I think it’s more to do with an inherent distrust of government and perhaps even healthcare. Which given the horror stories I’ve heard over the years I can’t exactly blame people for.

What do y’all think? Does the American public favour personal freedom over the welfare of their neighbours?
Debate, discuss at your leisure.

(Mods feel free to put this wherever you please.)

I've always been aware that there are selfish people in this country, but I admit I've been sadly surprised to discover just how many of them there are. It wasn't always this way. There was a time when Americans believed it was patriotic to make sacrifices for the welfare of the nation. The truth is if we had to fight WWII today and make the sacrifices we did back then with a nation that's filled with selfish cry babies like we have now, we'd lose.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I have to say, I was brought up always to consider other people. Part of that was the result of some of my formative years in a boys private boarding school run by the Society of Friends (Quakers) in Canada. (Aside, I still have a great deal of respect for Quakers.)

I still hold that (consideration for others) as a core value, which is an important part of my self-identification as a Humanist.

Now, I don't want to start waving my broad brush around, but I have to admit that as I've watched the news for the past 9 months of this pandemic, I have been immensely disappointed in a lot of people. A few Canadians, to be sure, but we are much more ready to work together and give up a few privileges for the good of all. But Americans, I have been really, seriously disappointed. I have seen a level of what I interpret as self-centered selfishness that I never would have anticipated.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I dunno. The news I have seen seems more concerned at the overall nationwide health of the US.
Though the media always seems slightly concerned (although usually also bemused) by American happenings

I guess we're the joker in the deck

 

[Shadow Wolf]

New Americans especially the younger generation, feel a sense of entitlement

I've seen a great deal of entitlement over this from my parents generation, Boomers raised on the pinnacle of Americana and exceptionalism. From them I hear a good deal of "I shouldn't have to" or "I only do because the store makes me."
It's not a generational thing. It's many decades of promoting this idea of rugged individualism, loner cowboys and frontiersmen taking care of themselves and their own, amd always going on about rights, rights that often don't exist but we have it crammed down our ears and in our brains from a very young age that America is the freest country ever, no where has the freedoms we do, and we must always fight to preserve those rights and let no one take them away.

 

[SomeRandom]

I guess we're the joker in the deck

Maybe. A random aside, your comment made me start singing the “Joker” song in my head. (Theme song to Kath and Kim.)
So thanks for that, I’m gonna be humming it all day lol

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Interesting. So it’s up to the person to find motivation to help others? Why not communal?
This seems to indicate a rather strong sense of individuality.

It can be communal. Things like charities and volunteering would be good examples of communal obligation. We're a group defined by the individuals rather than individuals defined by the group.

Corporation rather than conformity.

When I visited my relies in California, I was taken aback just how friendly everyone was when casually walking down the street. Everyone said hello and smiled. Everyone. I didn’t know if I was being perceived as rude or not. Since I’m not used to such public interaction and did my best to keep up.

I almost felt an obligation to invite them over for dinner though.

Haha. Yeah. That's us. We tend to say hi, how are you, etc even if we never meet you again. Eye contact is important too. I noticed that if I don't acknowledge the person I'm walking by even with a light head nod it throws their balance off.

I'm not sure about CA. In VA, the further out you go from the city, the more cordial and hospital people tend to be. Yes ma'ams and no ma'ams. I'm not even of age to be called a ma'am but I was told it's customary though many Americans tend to be age-shy.

I'm heavily generalizing. But we do have a lot of cultural similarities. Also, be mindful people all over the world who were born and/or raised here have the same American culture as those native here. Cultural behaviors and mindset tends to stick unless one's family is bi-cultural, which in most cases in the US it is.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Maybe. A random aside, your comment made me start singing the “Joker” song in my head. (Theme song to Kath and Kim.)
So thanks for that, I’m gonna be humming it all day lol

Haha

I haven't even heard this song before

You're welcome

 

[SomeRandom]

Haha

I haven't even heard this song before

You're welcome

Well I won’t be able to look at Joker the same way again lol
The song still slaps though. Such a banger
Incidentally I think this version is sung by comedian Gina Riley who plays the spoilt brat bogan Kim on the show.

 

[Sunstone]

@SomeRandom, please allow me to state right up front that I cannot offer anything even remotely approaching a comprehensive answer to your question, mostly because the scope of your question is exceedingly complex. I doubt I could get a handle on it if I took a month to read up on all I could about it. In short, I honestly don't know if American culture is fairly or reasonably characterized as "inherently selfish".

Having said that, there are a couple things -- more or less details -- that I would like to point out, and which might go a little ways towards addressing your question.

First, there are significant regional differences that are relevant here. I only have time to gloss over those differences, however. Perhaps the most currently important regional difference is between the traditional culture of the northeast -- and especially the New England region of the northeast -- and the traditional culture of the south. By "south", think the old Confederate States.

Those two regions right from the start had different ideas about the proper relationship between the individual and society. In that respect, they reflected the fact the northeast was predominantly settled by people from one region of England, while the south was predominantly settled by people from a different region of England, and the two different groups brought with them two different philosophies regarding an individual's duty and obligation to others.

In essence, the northeast was broadly more democratic and placed a much greater emphasis on being 'public spirited' than the south. In contrast, the south was more aristocratic and placed much less emphasis on being public spirited than the north.

Now, SR, this is important today because the south has been steadily increasing in political and cultural importance in the US ever since the end of World War II. Southern values and attitudes are waxing, while northeastern values and attitudes are waning. Put differently, the nation is progressing towards less public spiritedness, and greater selfishness -- and it has been doing so since (once again) the end of World War II.

So, that's the first factor I want to mention here. I apologize for glossing over the details, but I don't have that much time today. I will post next on one more factor, and then leave it at that.

EDIT: I'll have to wait for another opportunity to bring up the second factor I want to mention. I don't know when that will be, but I'll try to get back to this thread within the next day or so.

 

[SomeRandom]

It can be communal. Things like charities and volunteering would be good examples of communal obligation. We're a group defined by the individuals rather than individuals defined by the group.

Corporation rather than conformity.

This reaction against conformity. I find this “rebellious instinct” crop up in a lot of my interactions with Americans. A lot of lone wolves eyeing the establishment with suspicion. But seemingly wanting to help each other. Maybe it has to do with how America established itself, I dunno.

Haha. Yeah. That's us. We tend to say hi, how are you, etc even if we never meet you again. Eye contact is important too. I noticed that if I don't acknowledge the person I'm walking by even with a light head nod it throws their balance off.

Where I live, you’ll probably get some cordial smiles. Polite gestures and some “cheers, mate” if you do something nice.
We pride ourselves on helping each other out. I guess we just don’t like the small talk lol

I'm not sure about CA. In VA, the further out you go from the city, the more cordial and hospital people tend to be. Yes ma'ams and no ma'ams. I'm not even of age to be called a ma'am but I was told it's customary though many Americans tend to be age-shy.

What’s VA?
I recall I was at the shops (oh sorry “the mall”) in Cali and a young boy with a southern accent (I think) brushed past me. His cheeks flushed bright red and apologised with a heavy emphasis on “ma’am.”
Mind you, I actually look younger than I am. I’m still carded in some booze shops and I’m nearing 30.
I was quite impressed and amused by the boy.

I'm heavily generalizing. But we do have a lot of cultural similarities. Also, be mindful people all over the world who were born and/or raised here have the same American culture as those native here. Cultural behaviors and mindset tends to stick unless one's family is bi-cultural, which in most cases in the US it is.

I’m a western born easterner. So I understand about having two cultures in you.

 

[Quintessence]

The intellectual history of Western culture in general - not just the United States - is steeped in ideas of individualism and competition. It underpins the very idea of capitalism as an economic system, it underpins the idea of merit-based wages instead of universal basic income for example, and it even underpins the fixation on technologies to make individual human lives "better." The main reason we tell the story of "such and such is inherently selfish" is because we convince ourselves it is the correct and true story to tell. It's mythology - a story that is believed to be deeply true because it reflects the values or priorities held by a culture. A sacred narrative that is often taken for granted and rarely questioned.

It's not a narrative I buy into. Not because I think it is untrue - all mythologies are true - but because I find the mythology of interdependence considerably more compelling. The air does not care if you believe you and others are selfish or altruistic. You are going to be using the same air that all other life on the planet does regardless of what you believe, and the use of that air is part of a cycle that binds organisms together in a tapestry of interdependence. From this angle, in many ways I find the question of "is such and such selfish" kind of irrelevant? The only purpose to it as I see is to make harsh character judgements against someone - or worse an entire country - and just... why? Of what use is that?

 

[SomeRandom]

@SomeRandom, please allow me to state right up front that I cannot offer anything even remotely approaching a comprehensive answer to your question, mostly because the scope of your question is exceedingly complex. I doubt I could get a handle on it if I took a month to read up on all I could about it. In short, I honestly don't know if American culture is fairly or reasonably characterized as "inherently selfish".

Having said that, there are a couple things -- more or less details -- that I would like to point out, and which might go a little ways towards addressing your question.

First, there are significant regional differences that are relevant here. I only have time to gloss over those differences, however. Perhaps the most currently important regional difference is between the traditional culture of the northeast -- and especially the New England region of the northeast -- and the traditional culture of the south. By "south", think the old Confederate States.

Those two regions right from the start had different ideas about the proper relationship between the individual and society. In that respect, they reflected the fact the northeast was predominantly settled by people from one region of England, while the south was predominantly settled by people from a different region of England, and the two different groups brought with them two different philosophies regarding an individual's duty and obligation to others.

In essence, the northeast was broadly more democratic and placed a much greater emphasis on being 'public spirited' than the south. In contrast, the south was more aristocratic and placed much less emphasis on being public spirited than the north.

Now, SR, this is important today because the south has been steadily increasing in political and cultural importance in the US ever since the end of World War II. Southern values and attitudes are waxing, while northeastern values and attitudes are waning. Put differently, the nation is progressing towards less public spiritedness, and greater selfishness -- and it has been doing so since (once again) the end of World War II.

So, that's the first factor I want to mention here. I apologize for glossing over the details, but I don't have that much time today. I will post next on one more factor, and then leave it at that.

Wow. That is interesting. I didn’t know that.

In pop culture the “south” has always been characterised as either lazy, uneducated and a bunch of hicks. Or as having good old fashioned “family values” as well as being very hospitable.
The North seemingly seemed to be portrayed as snooty elitists. (Think shows like Frasier and the like.)
I guess I didn’t really understand the inherent propaganda in such portrayals because I’m not familiar with the US in such an intimate manner.
But I didn’t know the southern settlers were originally Aristocratic in origin. Makes their rebellion against the Brits seem far more complicated than I had assumed.

 

[Nakosis]

I dunno. The news I have seen seems more concerned at the overall nationwide health of the US.
Though the media always seems slightly concerned (although usually also bemused) by American happenings

I do think we have a culture of putting individual freedom on a higher level.
“A bill of rights,” Jefferson wrote, “is what the people are entitled to against every government on earth, general or particular, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.”
https://usa.usembassy.de/etexts/gov/peoplerights.pdf

 

[Trailblazer]

What do y’all think? Does the American public favour personal freedom over the welfare of their neighbours?
Debate, discuss at your leisure.

Yes, I think that generally speaking Americans are selfish and materialistic, and given I have lived here all my life and worked in various jobs for over 43 years, I think I am qualified to make a judgment call. Most Americans only care about their immediate family and friends and of course their cars, boats, houses and vacations, not necessarily in that order. It is an utter disgrace and this pandemic has showed them for who they are.

I think that part of the problem is that life, liberty and the pursuit of *individual* happiness is deeply embedded in this culture, so I cannot see how anything short of an act of God will ever change this sad situation.

About 65% of Americans identified as Christians in 2019, but so much for Christian values. What I see all around me are people living for self and the world, the exact opposite way that Jesus taught them to live. Some of my favorite verses from the New Testament are as follows:

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

 

[Trailblazer]

I do think we have a culture of putting individual freedom on a higher level.

That is the understatement of the year.

 

[SomeRandom]

Yes, I think that generally speaking Americans are selfish and materialistic, and given I have lived here all my life and worked in various jobs for over 43 years, I think I am qualified to make a judgment call. Most Americans only care about their immediate family and friends and of course their cars, boats, houses and vacations, not necessarily in that order. It is an utter disgrace and this pandemic has showed them for who they are.

I think that part of the problem is that life, liberty and the pursuit of *individual* happiness is deeply embedded in this culture, so I cannot see how anything short of an act of God will ever change this sad situation.

About 65% of Americans identified as Christians in 2019, but so much for Christian values. What I see all around me are people living for self and the world, the exact opposite way that Jesus taught them to live. Some of my favorite verses from the New Testament are as follows:

John 12:24-26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

Matthew 16:24-26 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Well I did refrain from bringing up Religion, for fear of alienating some answers.
But it’s hard not to think of the American stereotype of the hypocritical Christian. That exists all over I know. But it seems a trope in and of itself in American media

 

[Trailblazer]

I've always been aware that there are selfish people in this country, but I admit I've been sadly surprised to discover just how many of them there are.

Yeah, they all come out of the woodwork like bugs when you try to take anything away from them that they believe they are entitled to. It makes me want to throw up. Religion sure has not helped these people be more principled.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This reaction against conformity. I find this “rebellious instinct” crop up in a lot of my interactions with Americans. A lot of lone wolves eyeing the establishment with suspicion. But seemingly wanting to help each other. Maybe it has to do with how America established itself, I dunno.

I think it's only a problem when one boss doesn't want to relinquish his command for the other to take charge.

I was watching video training on how to be come a NAVY SEAL elite militant a couple of minutes ago. I think US militants would be the closest to communal obligations than the lay American public (those of us who don't have religious, militant, .. group ties). But in the military, it's cooperation focused because each person when they level up get a individual recognition for their service and leadership for their helping their group and Americans to keep each other safe. Yet, I was watching, no militant singled himself out apart from the group.

Our history always had that together/apart mentality. Even though parents tell their children when they are of age, they need to work and leave the house, there are a lot of children who take care of their elders while living their own lives with their family.

In other words, communal relationships exist in America its just not a cultural identity since we're so diverse both regional and in general.

Where I live, you’ll probably get some cordial smiles. Polite gestures and some “cheers, mate” if you do something nice.

We pride ourselves on helping each other out. I guess we just don’t like the small talk lol

Here there's a lot of trust factors involved with Americans. How are you and smiles become more personal the more we get to know you. But just walking by, how are you is another word for hello. So, I guess it's similar to what you're saying when it comes to that. Except for the cheers, mate.

What’s VA?
I recall I was at the shops (oh sorry “the mall”) in Cali and a young boy with a southern accent (I think) brushed past me. His cheeks flushed bright red and apologised with a heavy emphasis on “ma’am.”

Mind you, I actually look younger than I am. I’m still carded in some booze shops and I’m nearing 30.

I was quite impressed and amused by the boy.

Oh. The State of Virginia.

Ha. I got the same here and I'm only 39 but growing some gray I convince myself I'm the only one who can see it when looking in the mirror. But I look like I'm in my mid twenties. Language use is definitely regional. My mother told her not to call her ma'am because she felt we (her children) aren't slaves and we don't have a master. Yet, you go down south and if you don't call your elder by her last name or ma'am or mrs you get the dirty eye.

I’m a western born easterner. So I understand about having two cultures in you.

Western born easterner, I heard that. I don't know what culture I am since African Americans tend to be a mix of this or that in regards to ethnicity and heritage. I know American is a nationality not an ethnicity but if someone asked me my cultural heritage, I'd say American.

 

[Trailblazer]

I speak from my experience in the Midwest.

Sadly, it is not much different in the Northwest.

 

[Trailblazer]

How many anti-maskers are there? I don't know any personally.

dozens, hundreds, thousands?

Maybe the media is making it seem like a bigger issue in the US than it is.

I guess that all depends upon what state you live in, and what political party you favor. You live in California which is a progressive state, as is my state of Washington. I hardly ever see a mask-less face here, and I do not think it is all because of the governor mandate. The south and the Midwest is like another world.