Is an Atheist Society not a secular society?

[paarsurrey]

Is an Atheist Society not a secular society?
Secular means without regard to religious bias.

Please

Regard

_____________

This thread was conceptualized from Post #932 from our respected friend @Willamena .

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Atheists can be secular or non-secular, so it depends on the goals of the society more than the name I think. Same with religious societies with goals of secular inclusion and governance, like some United Universalists.

 

[Kirran]

Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, Jains etc might well be keen to join a secular society. They'd be far less likely to join an atheist society. An atheist society would be for atheists, whereas a secular society would be for supporters of secularism.

 

[LuisDantas]

Is an Atheist Society not a secular society?

Probably, but:

1) An atheist society is probably only possible in a very limited scale, and if it is selected specifically by that parameter. It can't really exist across generations, because a significant percentage of people are basically "born theists".

2) A secular society, on the other hand, is very much possible and sustainable in a wide scale.

I don't know what was meant by an "atheist society" in that other post.

 

[Kirran]

Oh I thought this was a society like a club, perhaps the OP meant it in terms of a country's society?

 

[icehorse]

Is an Atheist Society not a secular society?
Secular means without regard to religious bias.

Please

Regard

_____________

This thread was conceptualized from Post #932 from our respected friend @Willamena .

A secular society separates religion from government. A secular society usually allows for religious diversity, including atheists. A secular society is usually the best friend for people who are in the minority religiously.

For example, in the west you can be a member of an unusual religion like Druid or Pagan or Jain, and you will be protected and allowed to pursue your religion.

In contrast, theocratic societies such as we see in the ME usually make it quite difficult for people to pursue unusual religions. For example, it's probably really dangerous to try to be a Druid in SA or Iran.

 

[dust1n]

Is an Atheist Society not a secular society?
Secular means without regard to religious bias.

Please

Regard

_____________

This thread was conceptualized from Post #932 from our respected friend @Willamena .

They are not mutually inclusive traits of a government.

 

[Willamena]

Is an Atheist Society not a secular society?
Secular means without regard to religious bias.

An atheist society can be secular, if they carry out business without regard to religion, which includes their atheism.

But an atheist society is not automatically secular.

 

[Brickjectivity]

No, because a secular society does not decide what the religion should be. An atheist society is a society with no gods, not even God, which I think falls under the subject Religion.

 

[paarsurrey]

A secular society separates religion from government. A secular society usually allows for religious diversity, including atheists. A secular society is usually the best friend for people who are in the minority religiously.

For example, in the west you can be a member of an unusual religion like Druid or Pagan or Jain, and you will be protected and allowed to pursue your religion.

In contrast, theocratic societies such as we see in the ME usually make it quite difficult for people to pursue unusual religions. For example, it's probably really dangerous to try to be a Druid in SA or Iran.

This is also possible with a religious society to separate religious issues from the secular one and to be equitable with every segment of the society irrespective of what they believe or not-believe as long as they are loyal citizens of the state.
Regards

_____________
A secular state is a concept of secularism, whereby a state is or purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion.[1] A secular state also claims to treat all its citizens equally regardless of religion, and claims to avoid preferential treatment for a citizen from a particular religion/nonreligion over other religions/nonreligion. Secular states do not have a state religion (established religion) or equivalent, although the absence of a state religion does not necessarily mean that a state is fully secular; however, a true secular state should steadfastly maintain national governance without influence from religious factions and vice versa; i.e. Separation of church and state.[2]
Secular state - Wikipedia

Many states that are secular in practice nowadays may have legal vestiges of an earlier established religion. Secularism also has various guises which may coincide with some degree of official religiosity. In the United Kingdom, the head of state is still required to take the 1688-enacted Coronation Oath, swearing to maintain the Protestant Reformed religion in the United Kingdom and to preserve the established Church of England.[8] The United Kingdom also maintains seats in the House of Lords for 26 senior clergymen of the Church of England, known as the Lords Spiritual.[9]
Secular state - Wikipedia
Please

 

[icehorse]

This is also possible with a religious society to separate religious issues from the secular one and to be equitable with every segment of the society irrespective of what they believe or not-believe as long as they are loyal citizens of the state.

Yes, I agree that's it's possible. The UK is a really weird case. I would say that for almost all practical purposes, the UK is a secular society. The CE is more ceremonial than anything else.

While it's also "possible" for a theocracy to be equitable towards people who believe in the "wrong god" or "no god", it almost never works out that way.

 

[idav]

Is an Atheist Society not a secular society?
Secular means without regard to religious bias.

Please

Regard

_____________

This thread was conceptualized from Post #932 from our respected friend @Willamena .

Indint even know what an "atheist society" is supposed to mean. What does a society that doesn't believe in god entail? South Park made fun of the very idea of such a society, science be praised.

 

[paarsurrey]

Yes, I agree that's it's possible. The UK is a really weird case. I would say that for almost all practical purposes, the UK is a secular society. The CE is more ceremonial than anything else.

While it's also "possible" for a theocracy to be equitable towards people who believe in the "wrong god" or "no god", it almost never works out that way.

What about the Atheist "Soviet Russia"? It is an Atheistic Society and a "secular" one also. Is it more equitable than say the UK or the US?
Regards

___________
Article 14
1. The Russian Federation is a secular state. No religion may be established as a state or obligatory one.
2. Religious associations shall be separated from the State and shall be equal before the law.
The Constitution of the Russian Federation

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Is an Atheist Society not a secular society?
Secular means without regard to religious bias.

Please

Regard

_____________

This thread was conceptualized from Post #932 from our respected friend @Willamena .

Depends. How did it end up being an atheist society?

If it became an atheist society because religion was oppressed out of existence, then no: it isn't a secular society.

If it became an atheist society because people freely abandoned theistic beliefs, then yes, it's a secular society... as long as religion gets no special treatment (good or bad) from government, and the fact that something is religious or not is irrelevant to the law.

 

[icehorse]

What about the Atheist "Soviet Russia"? It is an Atheistic Society and a "secular" one also. Is it more equitable than say the UK or the US?
Regards

___________
Article 14
1. The Russian Federation is a secular state. No religion may be established as a state or obligatory one.
2. Religious associations shall be separated from the State and shall be equal before the law.
The Constitution of the Russian Federation

Thanks for the quotes from the Russian constitution!

How did you come to believe that Russia is an atheistic society? It might be, but I haven't heard that...

 

[ChristineM]

What about the Atheist "Soviet Russia"? It is an Atheistic Society and a "secular" one also. Is it more equitable than say the UK or the US?
Regards

___________
Article 14
1. The Russian Federation is a secular state. No religion may be established as a state or obligatory one.
2. Religious associations shall be separated from the State and shall be equal before the law.
The Constitution of the Russian Federation

There is considerable difference between what the constitution says and what people do. Russia is actually on a religious par per capita as the USA. Orthodox Christianity accounts for 75% of the Russian population, Islam 5%, Catholic, Protestant, Hebrew and Buddhist represent about1% of the population each. Different religions, similar numbers.

Also consider... Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion... 1st amendment of the US constitution.

The UK does actually have a state religion (anglican christian) which appears to be failing, and is estimated to be derfunct by 2065 the way religion is shrinking.

 

[paarsurrey]

Thanks for the quotes from the Russian constitution!
How did you come to believe that Russia is an atheistic society? It might be, but I haven't heard that...

From 1917 to 1991 religion or belief in god was banned in Soviet Russia. That made Russia an Atheistic Society . Right? Please
Regards

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The Soviet Union was dissolved on December 26, 1991. It was a result of the declaration number 142-Н of the Soviet of the Republics of the Supreme Soviet of the Soviet Union.[1] The declaration acknowledged the independence of the former Soviet republics and created the Commonwealth of Independent States (CIS), although five of the signatories ratified it much later or did not do it at all. On the previous day, Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev, the eighth and final leader of the Soviet Union, resigned, declared his office extinct, and handed over its powers – including control of the Soviet nuclear missile launching codes – to Russian President Boris Yeltsin. That evening at 7:32, the Soviet flag was lowered from the Kremlin for the last time and replaced with the pre-revolutionary Russian flag.[2]
Dissolution of the Soviet Union - Wikipedia
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The Soviet Union was established by the Bolsheviks in 1922, in place of the Russian Empire. At the time of the 1917 Revolution, the Russian Orthodox Church was deeply integrated into the autocratic state, enjoying official status. This was a significant factor that contributed to the Bolshevik attitude to religion and the steps they took to control it.[1] Thus the USSR became the first state to have as one objective of its official ideology the elimination of existing religion, and the prevention of future implanting of religious belief, with the goal of establishing state atheism (gosateizm).[2][3][4][5] Under the doctrine of state atheism in the Soviet Union, there was a "government-sponsored program of forced conversion to atheism" conducted by Communists.[6][7][8] The communist regime targeted religions based on State interests, and while most organized religions were never outlawed, religious property was confiscated, believers were harassed, and religion was ridiculed while atheism was propagated in schools.[2] In 1925 the government founded the League of Militant Atheists to intensify the persecution.[9] Accordingly, although personal expressions of religious faith were not explicitly banned, a strong sense of social stigma was imposed on them by the official structures and mass media and it was generally considered unacceptable for members of certain professions (teachers, state bureaucrats, soldiers) to be openly religious.
Religion in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia
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State atheism is a popular term used for a government that is either antireligious, antitheistic or promotes atheism. In contrast, a secular state purports to be officially neutral in matters of religion, supporting neither religion nor irreligion. State atheism may refer to a government's anti-clericalism, which opposes religious institutional power and influence in all aspects of public and political life, including the involvement of religion in the everyday life of the citizen.

State promotion of atheism as a public norm first came to prominence in Revolutionary France (1789–1799).[1] Revolutionary Mexico followed similar policies from 1917, as did Marxist–Leninist states. The Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic (1917–1991) and the Soviet Union (1922–1991) had a long history of state atheism, whereby those seeking social success generally had to profess atheism and to stay away from houses of worship; this trend became especially militant during the middle Stalinist era from 1929 to 1939. The Soviet Union attempted to suppress public religious expression over wide areas of its influence, including places such as central Asia.
State atheism - Wikipedia

 

[icehorse]

From 1917 to 1991 religion or belief in god was banned in Soviet Russia. That made Russia an Atheistic Society .

I would say that in theory you could say it was atheistic, but in spirit it was not. They replaced church dogma with their own new dogma. Most atheists I know are anti-dogma.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

From 1917 to 1991 religion or belief in god was banned in Soviet Russia. That made Russia an Atheistic Society . Right? Please
Regards

Atheist and not secular.

 

[columbus]

I would say that in theory you could say it was atheistic, but in spirit it was not. They replaced church dogma with their own new dogma. Most atheists I know are anti-dogma.

This ^^^
The Prophet Marx invented a new artificial religion called Communism. It contains both an ineffable higher power, the proletariat, and a code of correct behavior. As soon as the adherents of this new religion gained power they started behaving like all other revealed religionists. They developed high priests, such as Stalin and Mao. They formed churches called The Party, complete with a board of official doctrine called Politboros. The high priests and officials began enforcing this religion by "whatever means necessary". And it all tended to benefit them very greatly.
All the Prophets and Priests started out with the best of intentions. But the power conferred by this new religion had the usual results.
Tom